If speed isn’t related to power…

[GSM123]

Then why does Goku and Piccolo’s power raise when they remove their weights?

 

[SSJ2]

Who said it isn’t related? Is it not common knowledge that more speed = more power?

 

[GSM123]

Who said it isn’t related? Is it not common knowledge that more speed = more power?

I could swear the opposite was common sense here. I mean they do correlate, but not in every case. Cell raises his speed without rising his power, for example.

 

[SSJ2]

I can’t recall anyone denying that here. You may be thinking of Cell’s case in particular, in which I know many of us believe he increased both his speed and power.

 

[SSJ2]

Burta is a case of more speed not equaling more power. They are rare cases but they do exist.

 

[GSM123]

Yeah, they are rare cases indeed. It’s been a while since anyone discussed this topic, so I’m rather forgetful about it.

I suppose this case just further proves the two do correlate. They may not correlate in Ki levels, but they definitely do in terms of Power Levels.

 

[Pyro]

Gohan thought he could escape Boo despite his power being inferior. Same with Piccolo against 3rd Form Freeza.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Pyro[/mention] this case is mostly from changing one without affecting the other, not the two being inheritly different.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's more that they don't correlate linearly rather than having no correlation at all, outside of a few instances based more on how one has trained or utilises their Ki such as Goku VS Ginyu or Trunks VS Perfect Cell. Speed tends to increase along with power, but it's not exactly a linear case of each stat getting the same boost with a rise in battle power (outside of Kaioken which is explicitly said to do just that). Great increases in speed with a rise in power do seem to drastically decrease as the series goes on with how minimal the amount of speedblitzing feats were in the Boo Arc and Super.

 

[ahill1]

fat Boo was fat and 3rd form freeza had a huge head shush

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

They're related naturally but sometimes they don't. There are times when power is so huge therefore it kinda slow the speed of that individual i.e, Buff Cell, The Grade forms.

 

[SSJ2]

Chapter: 249 (DBZ 55), 7.4
Context: after Vegeta dodges Kui's attack
Kui: Wh…when did you…?!”
Vegeta: “When my battle power rises, it means that my speed raises too.”


It is stated that they are dependant on one another in most cases. I think unless you are suffering speed loss due to unnatural causes (such as bulking up), or unless you are a mutation that allows your body to move faster than normal (ex. Burta), this statement from Vegeta should hold true.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd also add the results of certain training regimes and intensities to that list of variables. Ginyu admitted that Goku was faster than him despite the wide difference in battle power between Ginyu's full power and Base Goku (and Ginyu's estimation of 85k being lower than what it actually was), likely due to how light training at 100x Gravity had made Goku's movements.

 

[SSJ2]

Wouldn’t Ginyu have gotten faster if he was at full power? I’d have to think his speed was suppressed if his power was suppressed.

 

[Kyo]

Goku:
- Power: 100
- Speed: 110

50% Goku:
- Power: 50
- Speed: 55

Goku powers up from half to full — both speed and power double.

But:

Krillin:
- Power: 100
- Speed: 120

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Wouldn’t Ginyu have gotten faster if he was at full power? I’d have to think his speed was suppressed if his power was suppressed.

He seemed to already be at full power at that point, considering Galu commented how he'd need to resort to Kaioken to break out of Ginyu's full nelson due to its strength. Even if he wasn't, the statement would be fairly redundant to make if it only referred to Ginyu's suppressed speed.

 

[SSJ2]

I don’t know if I agree, but I’ll reread that sequence later. I thought both Goku and Ginyu were still suppressed at that point given that Goku wasn’t said to hit 90k until powering up Kaioken. And to be fair, Goku was able to hold a weakened Raditz in the same type of hold, and he should have been below weakened Raditz.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Members of the Freeza Force outside of Vegeta and maybe Reacoom as well didn't really demonstrate much technical skill due to their reliance on their battle power over all else, so Raditz struggling with a hold more so than Goku would make sense considering the latter's varied experience in martial arts (unless counting Super ). The way Ginyu talks during the fight implies he was using his full 120k power but possibly not its full effort, considering he tells Goku not to hold back and never says he's still doing so as well after the first power up.

 

[SSJ2]

I'll reread the sequence and get back to you later. Memory is too fuzzy to comment in depth.

 

[ahill1]

I'm also of the opinion that Ginyu was holding back. Firstly Ginyu stated Goku is even better than he thought, though Goku seemed to be only slightly so, with me and many others placing him at somewhere in the 60k vicinity, like 66k or so. So Ginyu says Goku isn't the only one capable of altering his BP at will and flares an aura while unleashing a blast that surprises Goku. Still, they seem to fight pretty evenly after that and a difference between them is shown only when they fly away and Goku is shown as faster. Then later Ginyu seems to catch on Goku still concealing his true power and says Goku has a ceiling of 85k... seems weird if Ginyu were already at 120k which would make him way stronger than that Goku. Not only this, but this reserves wouldn't be treated by Ginyu as something Goku is hiding to fight Freeza if such amount were already obsolete by Ginyu's 120k... seems weird, these factors work better with Ginyu being above 60k but still some chunk behind the estimated 85k.

Personally:

Goku (initially) : 66,000
Ginyu (initially) : 66,000
Ginyu (powered up) : 75,000
Goku (powered up) : 73,000
Goku (estimated) : 85,000/full power : 90,000
Ginyu : 120,000