If you could change a single thing about DB, what would it be?

[Keedounan]

Exactly what it says on the tin.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Is this just for Part 1, or the manga as a whole?

 

[Keedounan]

The manga as a whole, ofc.

 

[SSJ2]

Probably remove the Boo arc and replace it with something else, where Gohan successfully manages to become the hero of the story.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I assume I can't go with the cheap answer of "End the series after the Freeza Arc?"

In that case, I'd make it so that Goku's plan of dealing with Gero immediately after hearing Future Trunks' story was to use the Dragon Balls to find Gero's location and warn him of the future that was to come. This would offer a far more natural reason as to why the Artificial Humans in Trunks' timeline were stronger as Gero would have more recent data. If including more plot points that could be built upon by this decision, you could use it to explain all the other poorly implemented plot twists where the only explanation given was "because time travel" such as this encounter being the reason Gero made #19 and made himself become an Artificial Human or Cell being created during those 3 years rather than being a time traveller from very muddled timeline. It'd also make the main cast (sans Vegeta) far less hypocritical in Vegeta letting Cell gain his perfect form, as most of them opting to not do anything about Gero regardless of the forseeable risk just because Goku, Vegeta and Ten wanted to test themselves was just as bad. At least here, it's a case of them regretting their benevolent action being used against them that is both far more interesting and doesn't require the whole cast being rewritten into being inconsistent plot devices.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Having SSjin Gotenks to battle Super Boo without SSjin3 to make it even. I think giving Gotenks a SSjin3 made the form cheap and the major reason why the power scaling is huge.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Start a new series after the defeat of Cell where Gohan is the hero.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Start a new series after the defeat of Cell where Gohan is the hero.

If you were in charge and the fans demanded for him to be set aside for Goku to regain his central role, would you compromise?

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Start a new series after the defeat of Cell where Gohan is the hero.

If you were in charge and the fans demanded for him to be set aside for Goku to regain his central role, would you compromise?

:1down

 

[Spiral-Force]

Such could backfire though. Gohan doesn't really have a passion for fighting either; just something he participated in when the situation called for it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Such could backfire though. Gohan doesn't really have a passion for fighting either; just something he participated in when the situation called for it.

If anything, that'd make him far more of a relatable character. He fights to protect what he values and has more going on with him such as his school/social life to the point he could be the manga equivalent of Spider-Man if done right. Meanwhile, Goku fights just because it's fun to him.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

That Great Saiyaman Saga should be a lot longer IMO.

 

[Spiral-Force]

If anything, that'd make him far more of a relatable character. He fights to protect what he values and has more going on with him such as his school/social life to the point he could be the manga equivalent of Spider-Man if done right. Meanwhile, Goku fights just because it's fun to him.

The societal elements do not alter the theme of his huge dormant power, which the series has used as a way for him to surpass elite warriors without nearly as much work; doesn't sound nearly as relatable as you're making him out to be. Goku doesn't only fight for fun, he fights to better himself and has considered the fate of Earth and its people multiple times in the process.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Such could backfire though. Gohan doesn't really have a passion for fighting either; just something he participated in when the situation called for it.

If anything, that'd make him far more of a relatable character. He fights to protect what he values and has more going on with him such as his school/social life to the point he could be the manga equivalent of Spider-Man if done right. Meanwhile, Goku fights just because it's fun to him.

Gohan is also more relatable in being more human (for a lack of a better word). He doesn't have that unrealistic never say die attitude that Goku has. In similar circumstances Goku had his arm broken and Piccolo-Daimao was about to defeat him but he didn't give-up despite the situation and managed to defeat him. Gohan's arm was broken against Cell and he just accepted his fate to die and said there was nothing he could do until Goku talked to him. That's much more sensible and relatable. Self-doubt is a thing, especially in a situation where there's realistically no way you can win.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Whichever way you slice it, Goku and Gohan are both far-removed from normal human beings as a whole. And in the scope of Dragon Ball, lack of dedication to fighting and training can cause a character to deteriorate considerably, which wouldn't be ideal for the top dog. Luckily for Gohan, when he falls behind, he can become relevant again due to his high potential. This opens the door to lazy methods for the writers to increase his power, like with the Old Kai boost. Even then, he still failed to finish off a Majin that he was way beyond in power. With the way the series is set-up, it doesn't take rocket science to understand why this kind of thing could flop, regardless of Gohan being more relatable than Goku (which I never denied).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The societal elements do not alter the theme of his huge dormant power, which the series has used as a way for him to surpass elite warriors without nearly as much work; doesn't sound nearly as relatable as you're making him out to be.

Well yeah, obviously not. In the context of comparing him to other characters in the main cast though (sans Kuririn and Mr. Satan), however, Gohan still has the relatable qualities in terms of personality and setting to make him stand out when the majority of the audience would be of middle to high school age.

Goku doesn't only fight for fun, he fights to better himself and has considered the fate of Earth and its people multiple times in the process.

Those qualities are also shared by most of the active fighters of the cast though, such as Piccolo and Tenshinhan, whereas Gohan has qualities that can't be solidly compared with the other cast members.

And in the scope of Dragon Ball, lack of dedication to fighting and training can cause a character to deteriorate considerably, which wouldn't be ideal for the top dog.

Not really. Instead, it could open up the possibility of having other characters not need to surpass the previous peak of power in order to catch up.

Luckily for Gohan, when he falls behind, he can become relevant again due to his high potential. This opens the door to lazy methods for the writers to increase his power, like with the Old Kai boost. Even then, he still failed to finish off a Majin that he was way beyond in power. With the way the series is set-up, it doesn't take rocket science to understand why this kind of thing could flop, regardless of Gohan being more relatable than Goku (which I never denied).

I agree with this point, somewhat. Gohan's potential is the instant contrivance button, though there are ways to work around it if rewriting the Boo Arc. For instance, it could easily be explain that SS2 being the manifestation of Gohan's hidden power and rage made it so he can't get any stronger than that through rage, or like the Boo Arc did, put him in a position where his rustiness makes it difficult for him to access his rage boosts properly.
Also, considering this arc had Goku doing contrived things such as revealing SS3 or revealing he was a liar when it came to how he'd fare against Fat Boo, I wouldn't say Gohan's god tier potential was the worst idea for the main character. As we saw with Boo, it could even be an opportunity to utilise a strength vs skill match properly if done right.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Well yeah, obviously not. In the context of comparing him to other characters in the main cast though (sans Kuririn and Mr. Satan), however, Gohan still has the relatable qualities in terms of personality and setting to make him stand out when the majority of the audience would be of middle to high school age.

What's with this fixation on relatability? Even if Gohan is relatively more relatable, this factor does not shield him from being poorly written. Gohan's lifestyle does not fit well with a series that has a heavy focus on the main protagonist consistently increasing his fighting capabilities and encountering threats that push him to new levels.

Those qualities are also shared by most of the active fighters of the cast though, such as Piccolo and Tenshinhan, whereas Gohan has qualities that can't be solidly compared with the other cast members.

Indeed, but how useful are his qualities in the context of the actual show? He attempted to be a peacemaker towards Cell of all people, and would've doomed the world if it wasn't for Goku's mental guidance in the last segments of the Cell Games. He's also not that good of a fighter, which has led to him making clumsy mistakes even when his strength significantly outstrips the opponent. Furthermore, his softness in times of peace results in rustiness and regression, something that would be especially dire if his potential didn't leak out in the form of rage or through a mystical power-up gifted to him by another being.

Not really. Instead, it could open up the possibility of having other characters not need to surpass the previous peak of power in order to catch up.

What do you mean by "not really"? What I said is true and was illustrated with Gohan early in the Buu Arc. Your response is irrelevant; moreover, most of the main cast are so much weaker than Cell Games Gohan that it'd be contrived for them to catch-up even if he slacks off.

I agree with this point, somewhat. Gohan's potential is the instant contrivance button, though there are ways to work around it if rewriting the Boo Arc. For instance, it could easily be explain that SS2 being the manifestation of Gohan's hidden power and rage made it so he can't get any stronger than that through rage, or like the Boo Arc did, put him in a position where his rustiness makes it difficult for him to access his rage boosts properly.

But what about the Old Kai unlock? If you take that out of the picture, that would make him much more susceptible to danger since he would not hold a candle to Super Buu. Either way, the execution would probably come across as forced unless the essence of Gohan's characterisation is rewritten too.

Also, considering this arc had Goku doing contrived things such as revealing SS3 or revealing he was a liar when it came to how he'd fare against Fat Boo, I wouldn't say Gohan's god tier potential was the worst idea for the main character. As we saw with Boo, it could even be an opportunity to utilise a strength vs skill match properly if done right.

I didn't say it'd be the worst idea, and I know that Goku wasn't handled very well either, I just recognise the problems that come with the concept of Gohan continuing his central role. The strength vs skill theme tends to be redundant when one character far exceeds the other in terms of power, and considering Ultimate Gohan's blunder against Buu, it'd be worse for him if the gap was lessened.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Remove the series fixation on power equalling victory.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

What's with this fixation on relatability?

The fact that it tends to be a core trait of creating a character capable of becoming popular, of which is the entire basis of this discussion revolving around Gohan.

Even if Gohan is relatively more relatable, this factor does not shield him from being poorly written. Gohan's lifestyle does not fit well with a series that has a heavy focus on the main protagonist consistently increasing his fighting capabilities and encountering threats that push him to new levels.

Indeed, but how useful are his qualities in the context of the actual show? He attempted to be a peacemaker towards Cell of all people, and would've doomed the world if it wasn't for Goku's mental guidance in the last segments of the Cell Games. He's also not that good of a fighter, which has led to him making clumsy mistakes even when his strength significantly outstrips the opponent. Furthermore, his softness in times of peace results in rustiness and regression, something that would be especially dire if his potential didn't leak out in the form of rage or through a mystical power-up gifted to him by another being.

I agree that Gohan was poorly written from the Cell Arc and onwards. His pacifism was contrived and the way he was utilised in the Boo Arc was entirely wasted.
His personality, however, isn't something that is poorly written as it merely offers variation in the cast. That only takes away from the uniformity of the cast in which the majority of characters are made less interesting by having the same goal. Gohan's execution in the Boo Arc was poor, I agree, but the premise was not.

I'd also like to remind you that the topic here is how we'd change the series, not entirely how the series was executed, thus why I'm focusing on how you'd take the initial premise of Boo Arc Gohan and improve on it.

What do you mean by "not really"? What I said is true and was illustrated with Gohan early in the Buu Arc.

See my above response.

Your response is irrelevant; moreover, most of the main cast are so much weaker than Cell Games Gohan that it'd be contrived for them to catch-up even if he slacks off.

I'm not talking about everyone, but those who actually did such as Vegeta and Goku. Piccolo could be a candidate as well if going in the Rosat since if not removing it, that's as big of an instance plot boost as you can get.

But what about the Old Kai unlock? If you take that out of the picture, that would make him much more susceptible to danger since he would not hold a candle to Super Buu. Either way, the execution would probably come across as forced unless the essence of Gohan's characterisation is rewritten too.

As I said, we're discussing ideas to improve the execution. Some better ones could include having the Z-Sword remain the main power up and offer magical properties capable of sealing Boo, reduce the Boo Arc powerscaling in general or elaborate that the Elder Kaioshin ritual isn't just sitting in wait for a power up and that the slightest break of concentration can make it fail.

I didn't say it'd be the worst idea, and I know that Goku wasn't handled very well either, I just recognise the problems that come with the concept of Gohan continuing his central role.

Yet it was the direction the series was clearly gearing towards. Regardless of the Cell Arc getting to its destination through multiple contrivances in both continuity and character, it was clear that its ending was to set up Gohan as the protagonist and the Boo Arc ignoring that betrayed the previous arc entirely. Alongside that, Gohan still had room to grow after accepting the fact he'd have to fight for what he cared for. Goku's arc, on the other hand, had ceased in development ever since the Freeza Arc, so there really was no reason for him to continue other than to be a plot device.

The strength vs skill theme tends to be redundant when one character far exceeds the other in terms of power, and considering Ultimate Gohan's blunder against Buu, it'd be worse for him if the gap was lessened.

Only through the conventions the series had set up. The introduction of magic being a threat, however, could've been a game changer in that regard; especially with Boo's array of techniques.

 

[Spiral-Force]

The fact that it tends to be a core trait of creating a character capable of becoming popular, of which is the entire basis of this discussion revolving around Gohan.

It was a rhetorical question. What I said directly after that sheds light on why this aspect doesn't necessarily help his case from the perspective of the main protagonist. This isn't merely about popularity, the meat of the matter revolves around the idea of Gohan continuing his main role.

I agree that Gohan was poorly written from the Cell Arc and onwards. His pacifism was contrived and the way he was utilised in the Boo Arc was entirely wasted.
His personality, however, isn't something that is poorly written as it merely offers variation in the cast. That only takes away from the uniformity of the cast in which the majority of characters are made less interesting by having the same goal. Gohan's execution in the Boo Arc was poor, I agree, but the premise was not.

His personality adds variation, but it is also technically what dictates his behaviour and actions, which tend to not work in his favour in the narrative. It strongly connects to why he's poorly written overall.

I'd also like to remind you that the topic here is how we'd change the series, not entirely how the series was executed, thus why I'm focusing on how you'd take the initial premise of Boo Arc Gohan and improve on it.

Yes, but the series itself importantly intertwines into the discussion and is useful to consider for the scenario. Also, it'd make more sense for me to offer critique than to "improve" the concept since I don't support it.

See my above response.

Doesn't have any bearing on what I said.

I'm not talking about everyone, but those who actually did such as Vegeta and Goku. Piccolo could be a candidate as well if going in the Rosat since if not removing it, that's as big of an instance plot boost as you can get.

But if they catch up or surpass him, what makes Gohan worthy of being the main guy? Each of those characters are more skilled, focused, and experienced in the field of battle. Other than rage boosts (which are asspulled), nothing stands out about him battle-wise.

As I said, we're discussing ideas to improve the execution. Some better ones could include having the Z-Sword remain the main power up and offer magical properties capable of sealing Boo, reduce the Boo Arc powerscaling in general or elaborate that the Elder Kaioshin ritual isn't just sitting in wait for a power up and that the slightest break of concentration can make it fail.

I don't endorse the concept in any form or fashion, so why should I improve upon it? Instead, I'll analyse what you suggest.

If the Z Sword allows for Gohan to seal Buu, then the conclusion would be rather mundane unless some kind of pretentious screw-up or condition is revealed to make the event more tense. Gohan isn't suggested to be an expert at concentration, so managing to get past such a strict ritual is questionable at best and bullcrap at worst.

Yet it was the direction the series was clearly gearing towards. Regardless of the Cell Arc getting to its destination through multiple contrivances in both continuity and character, it was clear that its ending was to set up Gohan as the protagonist and the Boo Arc ignoring that betrayed the previous arc entirely. Alongside that, Gohan still had room to grow after accepting the fact he'd have to fight for what he cared for. Goku's arc, on the other hand, had ceased in development ever since the Freeza Arc, so there really was no reason for him to continue other than to be a plot device.

Goku's formulation at least fits a lot better with the recurring pattern of training to enhance one's capabilities and preparing for future enemies. Goku still had room for development post-Frieza Arc considering he was too merciful to Frieza despite Vegeta's advice about fighting the tyrant ruthlessly. He acknowledged this flaw during his discussion with Future Trunks:

He also had the dilemma of whether or not to leave things to the next generation, since he won't be around forever. This was handled with plenty of risk, however, Gohan still got a massive chance to put things right like Goku intended but he dropped the ball and made things a lot worse. It's funny that you mention the term plot device, because that's ultimately the only thing that Gohan would have going for him as the main lead.

Only through the conventions the series had set up. The introduction of magic being a threat, however, could've been a game changer in that regard; especially with Boo's array of techniques.

Then it's no longer really a juxtaposition of strength vs skill anymore since the magic would play a significant part if it's potentially a game changer in Gohan's case.