Is Goku not a righteous Hero?

[ahill1]

Well, I think the title could have been better and I don't know if you people consider Goku as a hero, but according to Toriyama, Goku isn't this righteous hero Toei portaryed him as, and says he fights generally to satisfy himself -- well, he's a Saiyajin and the blood of the warriors ruin through his veins.

“Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the ‘righteous hero’-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of ‘poison’ that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.”

Thoughts on this? Maybe this could give some light in some of the behaviors Goku has shown in Super that people consider as selfish?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He's not a righteous hero in the sense of actively going out to stop any sort of misdeed like most comic book superheroes, but to say that's the same as his far more selfish self from the Cell Arc and onward would have to blatantly ignore all that came before it to work. Part 1 Goku clearly cared about his friends' safety above all else and didn't stand idle at innocents being harmed. He even went out of his way to aid complete strangers, notably Umigame who he could've just eaten, so to say his selfless tendencies aren't in the majority would be false.

Toriyama's statement just comes off as a pretentious way to explain the problems in character writing he put in place so the Cell Arc would happen as it did.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Goku was a flawed hero but not in a dark way. The problem is once he gave Cell the senzu bean the writing became ridiculous.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

AT trying to be deeper than he actually is. Poison, l0l. Does this Gag-Mangaka even know how to write that?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

AT trying to be deeper than he actually is. Poison, l0l. Does this Gag-Mangaka even know how to write that?

> Talks about adding subtle poison to his character.
> Said making Beerus essentially what'd amount to no more than a mind-controller would be too psychologically complex.

 

[ahill1]

Well, Goku also allowed Vegeta to go because he entertained fighting with him again despite knowing this was a dangerous move, the same with Piccolo Junior, with Goku stating in both cases losing an enemy like this would be a waste. His selfish actions weren't exclusive to the Cell saga.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well, Goku also allowed Vegeta to go because he entertained fighting with him again despite knowing this was a dangerous move, the same with Piccolo Junior, with Goku stating in both cases losing an enemy like this would be a waste. His selfish actions weren't exclusive to the Cell saga.

With Piccolo, Kami and the Dragon Balls were a major factor in letting him live.

For Vegeta, it was indeed a selfish act. However, Goku had already shown the ability to surpass Vegeta and defeat him with help. With Oozaru no longer a factor, things would be far more in Goku's favour; and even assuming Goku believed Vegeta still capable of regrowing it, he would now know not to let Vegeta create the Power Ball. A situation where the scales have shifted in your favour to make victory inevitable the next time in your eyes is far different to gambling the fate of everything on flimsy reasoning.

 

[Papasmurf]

GOAT Roshi pointed out Galu cares more about the fight than the fate of the world when he was fighting Piccolo though.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Goku still made it evident he cared both about Kami and the Dragon Balls in the aftermath of the fight, so it's still a case of him not being entirely selfish or optimistic to the point of stupidity like his Cell Arc self and onward.

 

[ahill1]

Well, Goku also allowed Vegeta to go because he entertained fighting with him again despite knowing this was a dangerous move, the same with Piccolo Junior, with Goku stating in both cases losing an enemy like this would be a waste. His selfish actions weren't exclusive to the Cell saga.

With Piccolo, Kami and the Dragon Balls were a major factor in letting him live.

For Vegeta, it was indeed a selfish act. However, Goku had already shown the ability to surpass Vegeta and defeat him with help. With Oozaru no longer a factor, things would be far more in Goku's favour; and even assuming Goku believed Vegeta still capable of regrowing it, he would now know not to let Vegeta create the Power Ball. A situation where the scales have shifted in your favour to make victory inevitable the next time in your eyes is far different to gambling the fate of everything on flimsy reasoning.

Considering Goku could have just traped Piccolo like Kuririn suggested, it seems the thought of fighting him again was more present on Goku's mind.

Goku admitted that he was completely outclassed by Vegeta. Although the Oozaru's threat was no longer present, it seems that even without it Goku's only chance would be the GD. He also didn't know Vegeta's potential for gains and still allowed him to go under the pretext of wanting to battle Vegeta again. He stated to Kuririn how selfish it was. Not really that different from not using the DBs to find and kill Gero. It seems Goku places his desire of satisfying his eagerness for fight in consistent occasions.

The example brought by Kenshi is also a good one.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Considering Goku could have just traped Piccolo like Kuririn suggested, it seems the thought of fighting him again was more present on Goku's mind.

He could have, but it'd be fairly unnecessary when Goku had shown the ability to surpass and defeat Piccolo in a 1 on 1 bout and could always rely on his friends for back up if necessary. This is a case where he could fulfil his desire for battle whilst keeping the situation under control.

Goku admitted that he was completely outclassed by Vegeta. Although the Oozaru's threat was no longer present, it seems that even without it Goku's only chance would be the GD.

Considering he was completely outclassing Vegeta with Kaioken x3 and it was only the stamina drain that prevented him from utterly defeating the prince, the statement comes off as a little forced, especially when further training in enduring Kaioken levels would suffice to rectify it.

He also didn't know Vegeta's potential for gains and still allowed him to go under the pretext of wanting to battle Vegeta again.

That would be a variable and considering Goku went from being weaker than Raditz to surpassing Vegeta with KKx3 in less than a year's worth of training, I'd say there's little reason for him to assume Vegeta's potential was much different from his own. Yes, Kaio said his training was worth about 10,000 years on earth, but what's to say the same wasn't true for the general lifestyle of a Saiyan born on a planet with the same gravity and who had over two decades' worth of experience conquering other planets under his belt?

He stated to Kuririn how selfish it was. Not really that different from not using the DBs to find and kill Gero. It seems Goku places his desire of satisfying his eagerness for fight in consistent occasions.

In these two cases his actions were selfish, which I didn't deny. Despite that, they were still two instances in which he had some level of control or means of countering them. Hardly the same as risking the fate of the world on what little information he knew of Gero when the opportunity of him simply finding and warning him was still on the table, or having Gohan fight Cell and believing he'd simply go out there and beat him only to be proven completely wrong.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He clearly said so...