Kaio Ken x6 Goku (arrival on Namek) vs. First Form Freeza

[Void]

Who wins?

 

[Tapion]

Goku high-diffs.

 

[Keedounan]

Who wins?

Assuming that Goku's base is 90,000 like suggested by the Daizenshuu, Goku still loses due to his strain (the rules doesn't precise he doesn't have the strains).

 

[Tapion]

Who wins?

Assuming that Goku's base is 90,000 like suggested by the Daizenshuu, Goku still loses due to his strain (the rules doesn't precise he doesn't have the strains).

Considering this same Goku could take a Kaioken-x10 for minutes without even breaking a sweat, i doubt a mere Kaio-ken x6 would even phase him.

 

[Keedounan]

Who wins?

Assuming that Goku's base is 90,000 like suggested by the Daizenshuu, Goku still loses due to his strain (the rules doesn't precise he doesn't have the strains).

Considering this same Goku could take a Kaioken-x10 for minutes without even breaking a sweat, i doubt a mere Kaio-ken x6 would even phase him.

That's right.

Then he wins with A LOT of difficulty.

 

[Papasmurf]

The Goku that withstood the 10-fold Kaioken was post-zenkai. This is arrival on Namek

 

[Keedounan]

The Goku that withstood the 10-fold Kaioken was post-zenkai. This is arrival on Namek

He still was confident that he could withstand the 10-fold Kaioken, though:

Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P11.1-4
Context: Goku has turned the gravity back down to 1g.
Goku: “Hwoo!!! I…I feel so light… …It’s like I’m not even here!!! Hoo hoo hoo!!! I’m light, I’m light! And strong, strong! Like this, I can definitely withstand about a 10-fold Kaio-Ken!”

 

[Papasmurf]

Withstanding and comfortably using are different things, not to mention even post-zenkai Goku was fucked the moment he so much as doubled it past the 10-fold.

 

[Tapion]

Withstanding and comfortably using are different things, not to mention even post-zenkai Goku was fucked the moment he so much as doubled it past the 10-fold.

Zenkais don't magically make someone capable of withstanding bigger levels of Kaioken, though. They are merely power increases.

 

[Papasmurf]

The bulk of Goku's increases in the spaceship also came from zenkais, and he even stated the single one he got from fighting Vegeta caused him to adapt to the gravity better. They mean quite a lot when Goku literally got like 40 times stronger.

 

[Tapion]

The bulk of Goku's increases in the spaceship also came from zenkais, and he even stated the single one he got from fighting Vegeta caused him to adapt to the gravity better. They mean quite a lot when Goku literally got like 40 times stronger.

Goku was training his body with the gravity chamber and then increasing his power with the zenkais, which is why the bulk of his increases came from the zenkais.

Tien and Yamcha, who were both much stronger than BoZ Goku, had trouble adjusting to the 10x gravity on King Kai's planet. This implies raw power isn't a big factor on gravity training, and the gravity training is an enormous factor on the mastery of the Kaioken as shown by 90k Goku's training.

Kid Trunks was also training with 150g(only 1.6x more than 90k Goku) and having trouble, despite being probably thousands of times stronger than the latter was.

 

[Papasmurf]

The ability to adjust to gravity isn't strictly numerical as we see in the series. But Goku does state that the Vegeta zenkai helped him master the 20fold gravity better and after abusing zenkais he could even move in 100x gravity. The zenkais clearly raised his body's ability to adapt to harsher environments, and the reason he concluded the 10-fold Kaioken shouldn't be impossible is because he mastered the 100-fold gravity. There's a clear correlation between Goku's zenkai increases and his Kaioken endurance, especially when the 20-fold Kaioken still did less damage to him than the 4-fold one did on Earth despite Goku only getting a week's worth of training if we don't count the zenkais.

 

[Tapion]

The ability to adjust to gravity isn't strictly numerical as we see in the series. But Goku does state that the Vegeta zenkai helped him master the 20fold gravity better and after abusing zenkais he could even move in 100x gravity. The zenkais clearly raised his body's ability to adapt to harsher environments, and the reason he concluded the 10-fold Kaioken shouldn't be impossible is because he mastered the 100-fold gravity. There's a clear correlation between Goku's zenkai increases and his Kaioken endurance, especially when the 20-fold Kaioken still did less damage to him than the 4-fold one did on Earth despite Goku only getting a week's worth of training if we don't count the zenkais.

Goku also states that if he doesn't toughen himself up from the basics, he won't be able to withstand many folds Kaioken:
Chapter: 251 (DBZ 57), 10.5
Goku: “If I don’t thoroughly toughen myself up from the basics…I won’t be able to withstand many-fold Kaio-Kens…!”

King Kai states here the Saiyans used the 10x gravity on their planet to toughen up their bodies:
Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P7.4
Kaio: “Let me tell you something…The planet where the Saiyans lived had gravity at least as great as this [10 times Earth's gravity]…They used it to strengthen their bodies. [ ] Do you begin to see where they get their strength? And that's not mentioning their inborn fighting instincts. You can’t even imagine how deadly they are.”

This creates a correlation, that Goku needs to toughen up his body with the gravity training to withstand many folds, suggesting heavily that power alone isn't the only factor on the Kaioken mastery.

Also, the 4-fold Kaioken didn't actually damage Goku that much if i remember correctly. Yeah, it worn him out, but he was still able to run away from Oozaru Vegeta until the latter caught him off guard when he was charging the Spirit Bomb.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well yeah, Goku also stresses how important basics are in the Rosat. But the fact that Goku states his battle with Vegeta (and the resulting zenkai) wasn't for naught after mastering the 20-fold gravity heavily suggests zenkais are useful for training. And after he mastered the 100-gravity he surmised even the 10-fold should be possible.

The 4-fold Kaioken obviously hurt him pretty badly for him to get hurt from Yajirobe tapping him in the back.

 

[Pakl]

Goku can use kaioken x10 when he arrived on Namek like he used kaioken x2 on earth which is without a strain....