karin vs master mutaito

[Fantastische Hure]

who wins if u can & want to answer

 

[SSJ2]

Karin gets smoked.

Mutaito > Prime Roshi/Tsuru >= 22nd Goku > Karin

 

[Fantastische Hure]

didn't goku think karin could still help after he lost to piccolo-daimao? only then karin told him that goku surpassed even him i think iirc

 

[SSJ2]

Zenkai or not, that Goku shouldn't be dramatically above his 22nd self. And realistically would Goku really know Karin's true power? It seemed that he was simply assuming that he could learn more from him.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i thought goku was said to have reached a "level as far as a human can go" or something & i think he fought master mutaito before. karin also said he surpassed even him i think which i assume maybe means that the idea wasn't that out there or something like goku jst abt surpassed him

 

[SSJ2]

Piccolo said that Goku was "about" as far as a human can go, meaning there was already precedent for a human being that strong. He should be in the same vicinity as Mutaito.

Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but…You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…

Karin's quote is hard to take definitively as he never specifies when he was surpassed.

 

[Papasmurf]

Mutaito wins for the above reasons.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Piccolo said that Goku was "about" as far as a human can go, meaning there was already precedent for a human being that strong. He should be in the same vicinity as Mutaito.

Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but…You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…

Karin's quote is hard to take definitively as he never specifies when he was surpassed.

but i think karin could still def. be higher than every1 who was at 22nd tenkaichi-budokai

 

[SSJ2]

Unless you think Goku received a monumental Zenkai post-Tambourine I'm not seeing it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

if goku (vs piccolo-daimao) >/~ master mutaito because of piccolo-daimao’s comment then maybe could be or...

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

This time I can and want to answer

And my answer is: Mutaito makes Karin his pet cat for reasons SSJ2 mentioned

 

[SIAD]

I'd say Master Karin wins. Maybe even Goku received another Zenkai after being defeated by Piccolo Daimao.

I have: Goku (Second Zenkai Power)> = Master Karin> Goku (First Zenkai Power)> = Mr. Mutaito> Young Roshi> = Young Tsuru> = Goku (TB22)> = Tenshinhan (TB22).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

As SSJ2 said, even assuming Goku gained a Zenkai to place him more or less on Mutaito's level, the fact remains his superiority to Karin is far more definitive, especially when some translations suggest he'd surpassed him by a fair margin. I wouldn't say Karin gets stomped, but Mutaito's definitely going to hold the edge.

 

[ahill1]

I'd also say that Karin somewhat struggling to dodge Goku's onslaught right before this latter got the fake holy water is telling, while Mutaito should be about as strong as the Goku who got smoked by old Piccolo.

 

[SSJ2]

Karin's statement makes it pretty clear that he isn't complete fodder to Goku. I'd say it's far more likely that he was holding back to Tao Pai Pai's level for Goku's training.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

why couldn't that be more likely that he jst caught him off-guard? before that goku didn't seem to be able to catch him at-all i think & then the next day he got much closer to getting the water i think. perhaps karin jst didn't get the chance to adjust his level right i think & also goku could jst barely get the water iirc, he didn't take the water out-right easily, he had to resort to get close enough & tickle him i think.

 

[SSJ2]

He still gave Karin some trouble prior to forcing him to drop the water.



The most likely scenario is that Karin was held back to Tao's level imo.



It would make sense for him to force Goku to reach this level in order to beat Tao, and we saw that Goku wasn't able to one shot Tao or anything like that after the training. If Karin is as strong as the implications from the PD arc suggest, I don't buy that he couldn't adjust his level to avoid Goku. His goal wasn't to stop Goku from getting the water for 3 years, it was to help him defeat Tao Pai Pai as quickly as possible.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

well, that seems he was blocking sort-of normally until next panel but old piccolo-daimao initially also didn't have the chance to adjust power until he fell-on the ground or so i think.

 

[SSJ2]

The difference there is Piccolo Daimao wasn't familiar with Goku's power before fighting. Karin should have a good understanding of how strong he was considering they were training together. Even if Goku was getting stronger as they trained, I don't buy a master like Karin not being able to raise his level at some point if his goal was to stall Goku for as long as possible.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

that seemed goku was reaching a higher level at a faster-rate than master-roshi, so maybe that wasn't as much of a surprise to be caught off-guard like karin was