Kibitoshin vs Dabra/Super Perfect Cell

[Dagon]

Kibitoshin fights Dabra and Super Perfect Cell each one-on-one. How does he stand up to these villains? I think he might beat Dabra but might come to a standstill with Super Perfect Cell.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He can beat Dabura but not Cell IMO.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I could see him beating both. From what we know, he seemed to deem himself less significant than Vegeta, yet pulled a 180 when he sensed how powerful he'd become. Whilst there isn't much to go on for his power, I've got to give the Potara some credit.

 

[SSJ2]

Beats both. Dabra is complete fodder, but I think Super Perfect Cell would be quite difficult. We can't lie and say that Vegeta was useful in the battle against Boo. Sure he was able to stall for a bit of time, but that is only due to the fact that Boo was toying with him. If Boo was serious, he would've one shotted Vegeta. So I think comparing SSJ2 Vegeta to Kibitoshin is an unfair comparison.

 

[Six Trails]

Well, Vegeta was grouped in with Goku and (presumably) Gohan as a Master of the Universe by Old Kaioshin, while Kibitoshin was just told he was fodder by Old Kaioshin.

I do think Kibitoshin is SS2 tier, just noticeably weaker than SS2 post-Majin Vegeta. So I guess SPC tier sounds Ok.

With that said, he'd one shot Dabra, but lose to Cell.

 

[SSJ2]

Kibitioshin is already a fused fighter, so he cannot be considered in that statement. You can only fuse via potara one time, so he would not be a candidate for "3 unfused top masters".

 

[Lord Beerus]

Kibitoshin defeats Dabra but then SPC one shots him

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If Boo was serious, he would've one shotted Vegeta. So I think comparing SSJ2 Vegeta to Kibitoshin is an unfair comparison.

I think that part's somewhat debatable. Whilst gap consistency would make such apparent, Vegeta has demonstrated durability feats far beyond his power on many occasions, most notably the battle against the Zet-Senshi.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

I try to comprise and put him at Teen Gohan level. It still puts him at SSJ2 level, but on the low end. With this, the Potara still grants a considerable boots, but also leaves him behind an SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta.

This way I can honor Old Kai's statements without making Kibitoshin a total puss.

I see him defeating Dabra with a bit of difficulty, but SPC is too much IMO.

 

[Pyro]

He'd easily slaughter Dabura. I'd love to see him do to Dabura what Freeza did to Krillin with the psychokinesis BS.

On the other hand, Cell would probably end up severely injuring him, if not coming out the victor. I think the two are very close in power, enough that Cell would be able to take advantage of his vast arsenal to edge out Kibitoshin's lack of experience and skill. The Kai's magic would still be a vital piece to escaping alive, but I don't think Cell would be so easy to fall prey to a fatal shot.

Dabura 0/10
Cell 6.5/10

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

So he has to fight Cell twice, only with different abilities and skills.
He paralyzes them both and then kiais their heads off.

 

[Pakl]

How come? Kibitoshin is implied to be weaker than SSjin 2 Vegeta as he was not relevant to Boo..

SSjin 2 Goku is stronger than SSjin 2 Kid Gohan who SPC is a rival to

At best, Kibitoshin would be close to SPC and SSjin 2 Kid Gohan

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

He wasn't and nor was Vegeta was relevant to Buu.
Cell was stated equal to Dabra, who was even-ish with SSJ2 Adult Gohan, who was weaker than his kid self.

A much stronger Kaioshin would have no trouble stunning people equal to a guy he stunned.

 

[Pakl]

Vegeta was there to fight but Kibitoshin is clearly not relevant....

Goku said Dabura was on Cell's level but either he means FP Cell or suppressed Cell is irrelevant.. You know I have Gohan SSjin vs Dabura and Dabura being Suppressed Cell vs Goku level... SPC is also stronger than SSjin 2 Teen Gohan anyway.. Kibitoshin techniques are irrelevant.. I am talking about his power

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Kibitoshin was needed to teleprt E.Kaioshin and Dende from the planet.

That's all your opinion and there is very little to support Dabra=Suppressed Cell.
It makes no sense to reffer his weaker, suppressed form, when they know it wasn't his maximum.

They aren't irrelevant, when they can win him this fight easily.

 

[Pakl]

Kibitoshin was needed to teleprt E.Kaioshin and Dende from the planet.

That's all your opinion and there is very little to support Dabra=Suppressed Cell.
It makes no sense to reffer his weaker, suppressed form, when they know it wasn't his maximum.

They aren't irrelevant, when they can win him this fight easily.

He was still irrelevant and said to be nothing specail by Elder Kaioshin

No t's not an opinion. Gohan is drawn as a SSjin and everything says he is

There is barely anything to support he was SSjin 2

Why not? Goku referring to the Cell he fought and knows best his abillities makes sense... Goku wanted to compare Dabura to someone and the only strong enough was Cell.. I am talking about power.. I have SSjin 2 Vegeta > Kibitoshin

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

He was irrelevant to Buutenks.
Kibitioshin's parts are said to be nothing special and that's why EK doesn't think he could fight Buutenks head on.

Yes it is.Only his aura sides with him being a FPSSJ and it was never consistent.

I don't want to get into another SSJ2 vs. FPSSJ against Dabra debate with you, but here I go again:

1.Daizenshuu 7 states he was a SSJ2.

2.Kaioshin tells Kibito he missed out on the three Saiyans being all powerful, which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense if Gohan was FPSSJ.

3.Goku tells Gohan to get angry like when he fought Cell and not to break the SSJ wall, which goes along with Vegeta stating, that Gohan can surpass him and Goku if he went into a frenzy.

4.Fat Buu needing to power up to a level, where he is a threat to both Goku and Vegeta, to beat Gohan and Dabra.

5.Gohan stating, that Goku and Vegeta are fighting at a level, that has ''further surpassed Super Saiyan'', which would imply he was fighting at a level beyond SSJ too.

Cell's abilties didn't change with his power up, he only learned Instant Transmission and got a heck of a lot stronger.
It makes no sense to compare Dabra to a weaker state of the enemy they fought to show, how far they have come.

Again, the OP didn't rule out those abilties.

 

[Pakl]

He was irrelevant to Buutenks.
Kibitioshin's parts are said to be nothing special and that's why EK doesn't think he could fight Buutenks head on.

Yes it is.Only his aura sides with him being a FPSSJ and it was never consistent.

I don't want to get into another SSJ2 vs. FPSSJ against Dabra debate with you, but here I go again:

1.Daizenshuu 7 states he was a SSJ2.

2.Kaioshin tells Kibito he missed out on the three Saiyans being all powerful, which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense if Gohan was FPSSJ.

3.Goku tells Gohan to get angry like when he fought Cell and not to break the SSJ wall, which goes along with Vegeta stating, that Gohan can surpass him and Goku if he went into a frenzy.

4.Fat Buu needing to power up to a level, where he is a threat to both Goku and Vegeta, to beat Gohan and Dabra.

5.Gohan stating, that Goku and Vegeta are fighting at a level, that has ''further surpassed Super Saiyan'', which would imply he was fighting at a level beyond SSJ too.

Cell's abilties didn't change with his power up, he only learned Instant Transmission and got a heck of a lot stronger.
It makes no sense to compare Dabra to a weaker state of the enemy they fought to show, how far they have come.

Again, the OP didn't rule out those abilties.

And there is no evidence Kibitoshin is stronger than SSjin 2 Vegeta

The aura is the thing which tells what he is lol.. The Manga is clear and consistent with it

Gohan has SSjin aura and no lightning and his hair is not sharp like SSjin 2... He is the same as when he went SSjin when Videl got beaten hence he is clearly SSjin

1. Daizenshuu says Gohan only went SSjin 2 vs Kibito and it contradicts itself so using it is invalid

2. So I guess Base Vegeta > SSjin 2 Gohan because Kaioshin was shown to be more impressed on him than on SSjin 2 Gohan in the Budokai... The Budokai events clearly got retconned during the Babidi Arc

Plus, seeing them in action is more impressive than just sensing... Your argument makes no sense beause even if Gohan was SSjin 2, he should be same power as in the Budokai so there is no reason for Kibito to be surprised

3. He tells him to get angry because with it he achieves SSjin 2. The whole breaking wall was not famous at that time and only Gohan was known to be SSjin... Vegeta referred to Gohan getting angry and going SSjin 2 imo as it was not known they had SSjin 2

4. More like Fat Boo powered up like that because Gohan said if he can achieve his full power which is SSjin 2 then he can beat Boo but he then powered up surpassing even that.. The plot wanted to show Boo is even greater than Gohan's true power, SSjin 2

5. What? It actually proves he was fighting as SSjin.. Kaioshin is surprised how Goku and Vegeta filled Boo's cacoon that fast.. If Gohan was also fighting at a level beyond SSjin did he and Dabura barely lend power to Boo? Why was Gohan surprised? It basically proves Gohan was SSjin and it's one of the many evidence of Gohan being SSjin

I meant Goku could of refered to the level Cell used on him because he fought him

Why does it make no sense? Dabura was needed to be compared to someone and the only strong guy was Cell

Who else can he be copared to??

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

No, the aura is inconsistent and is there to make the form flashy.
In many instances, the characters have ''wrong'' auras and even sparks to show they are strong.

His hair is like his SSJ2 for the record.

1.No, it doesn't say that.

2.They didn't get retconned.Kaioshin forgot about SSJ2 Gohan until Goku beat Yakon.
Gohan wasn't fighting in that instance, meaning the ki he was showing off against Kibito, was lower than his ki against Dabra and Buu.
You are contradicting your third point by saying that, by the way.

3.Not famous?It was used everywhere at that point in the manga, even by Gohan himself.
Vegeta at that point knew Goku had Super Saiyan 2, so that line absolutely makes no sense if he is talking about SSJ2.

4.The plot wanted to show Buu as an actualy threat, unlike even Dabra.

5.He wasn't fighting at a level FURTHER surpassing the Super Saiyan.
Not much energy went to Buu, because Dabra couldn't really damage Gohan.
He only made Gohan spend a lot of ki fighting him evenly, which he wouldn't lose, if he was FPSSJ, since that form doesn't drain their ki that much.

It makes no sense to compare him to a weaker state of Cell, because it makes no sense to compare him to a weaker state of Cell.
It'd be like Beerus reffering to 1st form Freeza in BoG or Vegeta stating, that Goku has surpassed Cell Games Gohan and mean by that Gohan's FPSSJ form.

 

[Lord Brofist]

Cell was rivaling SSj2 Kid Gohan in power. Even if you inferred Gohan was an SSj2 against Dabura, that Gohan couldn't even hold a candle to his kid self and Dabura was just barely holding the edge against him. Heck, the only reason we even say he has an edge is because Goku says he does.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that the same Cell who Kid Gohan admitted was stronger than expected and in one single move, shattered his arm, docked his ki over half and made him give up until Goku pushed him along and was specifically told by Goku to go all out against Cell to win which Gohan needed a distraction for.

You aren't telling me that same Cell only rivals Gohan's far, far weaker adult self and Dabura right?

Considering the places people have Kibito, it would be nearly impossible to have Kibitoshin weaker than even SSj3 Goku but clearly Kibitoshin isn't throne trying to help out in the fight. It only seems fair enough that he'd at least be weaker than SSJ2 Vegeta.

I suppose in the end, anything goes at this point and where Kibitoshin lies is anyone's guess. I'll infer that he's still around Cell's level of power, give or take so he wrecks Dabura horrifically and then loses to Cell after a hellish fight.