Let's make BOG's/DBS' ''Goku is no1'' work...

withheldforprivacy

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How are these...

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Buu- 350
Fat Buu (useable chi)- 150
Grey Buu- 200
Super Buu- 450
Gotenks pre- 105
SSJ Gotenks pre- 140
Gotenks post- 165
SSJ Gotenks post- 220
SSJ3 Gotenks- 440
Ultimate Gohan- 550
SSJ3 Goku (BOG/DBS)- 600
 

Let's Go Fearless!

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withheldforprivacy said:
How are these...

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Buu- 350
Fat Buu (useable chi)- 150
Grey Buu- 200
Super Buu- 450
Gotenks pre- 105
SSJ Gotenks pre- 140

Gotenks post- 165
SSJ Gotenks post- 220
SSJ3 Gotenks- 440
Ultimate Gohan- 550
SSJ3 Goku (BOG/DBS)- 600
?
 

xmysticgohanx

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My turn:

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 4200
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 200
Fat Boo (split up)- 200 (because none of Grey Boo's power was being used anyway)
Grey Boo- 4000
Evil Boo- 4200
Gotenks pre- 30
SSJ Gotenks pre- 300 (yes I have a 10x multiplier on SSJ for everybody, Toriyama said that's what he kept on envisioning it is)
Gotenks post- 105 (Daiz says he surpassed Majin Vegeta)
SSJ Gotenks post- 1050
SSJ3 Gotenks- 4200
Ultimate Gohan- 5600
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 6000 (DBS has huge training gains anyway lmao, 15x isn't bad at all)

or

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 350
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 350
Fat Boo (split)- 100
Grey Boo- 250
Evil Boo- 350
Gotenks pre- 2
SSJ Gotenks pre- 20
Gotenks post- 4.375
SSJ Gotenks post- 43.75
SSJ3 Gotenks- 350
Ultimate Gohan- 400 (= with Boo arc Goku)
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 450


Is there a way to make either of these work with Grey Boo = Pure Boo/SSJ3 Goku while still having Fat Boo (split up) + Grey Boo = Evil Boo? Then these (or 1) would be perfect. Or maybe someone can make a third list like that and then we would have 3 options.
 

kriss-

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How does it not already work? Let go of the common norm, adapt to the new material; the ideals that rehash Toriyama's original intention; drop your fan made notions of gaps and multiplies and suddenly everything falls into place.

However if you're unwilling to do so, just remember that bias is the catalyst for impulsive thinking.
 

xmysticgohanx

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Tosh said:
How does it not already work? Let go of the common norm, adapt to the new material; the ideals that rehash Toriyama's original intention; drop your fan made notions of gaps and multiplies and suddenly everything falls into place.

However if you're unwilling to do so, just remember that bias is the catalyst for impulsive thinking.
Make a list lol or edit one of mine
 

xmysticgohanx

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xmysticgohanx said:
My turn:

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 4200
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 200
Fat Boo (split up)- 200 (because none of Grey Boo's power was being used anyway)
Grey Boo- 4000
Evil Boo- 4200
Gotenks pre- 30
SSJ Gotenks pre- 300 (yes I have a 10x multiplier on SSJ for everybody, Toriyama said that's what he kept on envisioning it is)
Gotenks post- 105 (Daiz says he surpassed Majin Vegeta)
SSJ Gotenks post- 1050
SSJ3 Gotenks- 4200
Ultimate Gohan- 5600
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 6000 (DBS has huge training gains anyway lmao, 15x isn't bad at all)

or

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 350
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 350
Fat Boo (split)- 100
Grey Boo- 250
Evil Boo- 350
Gotenks pre- 2
SSJ Gotenks pre- 20
Gotenks post- 4.375
SSJ Gotenks post- 43.75
SSJ3 Gotenks- 350
Ultimate Gohan- 400 (= with Boo arc Goku)
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 450


Is there a way to make either of these work with Grey Boo = Pure Boo/SSJ3 Goku while still having Fat Boo (split up) + Grey Boo = Evil Boo? Then these (or 1) would be perfect. Or maybe someone can make a third list like that and then we would have 3 options.
Or

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 600
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 350
Fat Boo (split)- 200
Grey Boo- 400
Evil Boo- 600
Gotenks pre- 5
SSJ Gotenks pre- 50
Gotenks post- 7.5
SSJ Gotenks post- 75
SSJ3 Gotenks- 600
Ultimate Gohan- 800
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 1000


I like that one the best, it has Fat Boo = Evil Boo and Grey Boo = Pure Boo = SSJ3 Goku.
I don't think it's mathematically possible to have that and have Pure Boo > Evil Boo

1). has the SSJ Gotenks pre > Fat Boo implications and base post RoSaT > Majin Vegeta Daiz statement
2). has Fat Boo (usable ki) = Evil Boo and I managed to get Ultimate Gohan = Goku and not Goku > Gohan
3). has Fat Boo = Evil Boo and Grey Boo = Pure Boo = SSJ3 Goku, makes most in universe sense

Is it possible to combine one advantage of one list with another without compromising at least 1 advantage?
 

kriss-

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xmysticgohanx said:
xmysticgohanx said:
My turn:

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 4200
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 200
Fat Boo (split up)- 200 (because none of Grey Boo's power was being used anyway)
Grey Boo- 4000
Evil Boo- 4200
Gotenks pre- 30
SSJ Gotenks pre- 300 (yes I have a 10x multiplier on SSJ for everybody, Toriyama said that's what he kept on envisioning it is)
Gotenks post- 105 (Daiz says he surpassed Majin Vegeta)
SSJ Gotenks post- 1050
SSJ3 Gotenks- 4200
Ultimate Gohan- 5600
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 6000 (DBS has huge training gains anyway lmao, 15x isn't bad at all)

or

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 350
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 350
Fat Boo (split)- 100
Grey Boo- 250
Evil Boo- 350
Gotenks pre- 2
SSJ Gotenks pre- 20
Gotenks post- 4.375
SSJ Gotenks post- 43.75
SSJ3 Gotenks- 350
Ultimate Gohan- 400 (= with Boo arc Goku)
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 450


Is there a way to make either of these work with Grey Boo = Pure Boo/SSJ3 Goku while still having Fat Boo (split up) + Grey Boo = Evil Boo? Then these (or 1) would be perfect. Or maybe someone can make a third list like that and then we would have 3 options.
Or

SSJ2 Goku- 100
SSJ3 Goku- 400
Fat Boo- 600
Fat Boo (usable ki)- 350
Fat Boo (split)- 200
Grey Boo- 400
Evil Boo- 600
Gotenks pre- 5
SSJ Gotenks pre- 50
Gotenks post- 7.5
SSJ Gotenks post- 75
SSJ3 Gotenks- 600
Ultimate Gohan- 800
SSJ3 Goku (DBS)- 1000


I like that one the best, it has Fat Boo = Evil Boo and Grey Boo = Pure Boo = SSJ3 Goku.
I don't think it's mathematically possible to have that and have Pure Boo > Evil Boo

1). has the SSJ Gotenks pre > Fat Boo implications and base post RoSaT > Majin Vegeta Daiz statement
2). has Fat Boo (usable ki) = Evil Boo and I managed to get Ultimate Gohan = Goku and not Goku > Gohan
3). has Fat Boo = Evil Boo and Grey Boo = Pure Boo = SSJ3 Goku, makes most in universe sense

Is it possible to combine one advantage of one list with another without compromising at least 1 advantage?
Goku (Db Super) is both weaker than Frieza in Base and stronger than Ultimate Gohan at SSj3. Toriyama already stated that Goku during the Boo Saga couldn't get any stronger than he already was.

So your levels don't work.
 

xmysticgohanx

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Feats > Statements.
Not to mention if you rewatch Beerus checking Goku's "power level" in Super, it's clear as day that Beerus can't sense ki

Can I see the interview where Toriyama says Boo arc Goku can't get stronger through training?
 

Clearin

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I forget exactly what the quote was, but can't #1 mean number 1 fighter rather than strongest? Gohan isn't exactly a fighter, so it makes sense Vegeta wouldn't count him.

For me the biggest confusing line comes from the Manga, when Vegeta says Goku is the only one capable of fighting Kid Boo. Does he not know Gohan and Gotenks' strength by that point? He at least saw fusion from the otherworld. By the time Gohan fought Boo Vegta may have been talking with Baba about the plan to return to Earth though.
 

Six Trails

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Gohan and Gotenks were dead at the time. Two dead people can't fight Pure Boo.
 

Tapion

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Vegeta's statement is a recall to his rivalry statement back in the end of Buu Saga, Clearin.
 

xmysticgohanx

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Minute: 10~11
Context: Vegeta thinks about Goku as he gets increasing frustrated with being stuck at the resort instead of training (and people in the crowd keep bumping into him)
Vegeta: “After defeating Majin Boo, there should be no doubts that he’s Number One…But he stills keeps on training anyway…And so…I…can’t…stay here…and fall…even further…”

no doubts
 

kriss-

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I'll take care of all these arguments tomorrow, once I'm more sober.

I'm kind of drunk right now.

The good ol' Gotenks Pre and Post and Goku Ssj3 arguments are my favorite.

There is nothing I haven't heard already and there is nothing I can't counter.
 

withheldforprivacy

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Tosh said:
Toriyama already stated that Goku during the Boo Saga couldn't get any stronger than he already was.

Did he really state that? So that means SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku is already stronger than Ultimate Gohan?
 

kriss-

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withheldforprivacy said:
Tosh said:
Toriyama already stated that Goku during the Boo Saga couldn't get any stronger than he already was.

Did he really state that? So that means SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku is already stronger than Ultimate Gohan?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-interview/

Toriyama:
” Because I thought there was no way for any stronger guys to pop up, or for Goku to get any stronger than he already was."
 

xmysticgohanx

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So we should discard Grey Boo = Pure Boo then?

Becuase it's impossible to have that and still have Pure Boo > Evil Boo

Evil Boo = Grey Boo + weaker Fat Boo

Unless Fat Boo has a negative power level lmao
 

kriss-

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xmysticgohanx said:
So we should discard Grey Boo = Pure Boo then?

Becuase it's impossible to have that and still have Pure Boo > Evil Boo

Evil Boo = Grey Boo + weaker Fat Boo

Unless Fat Boo has a negative power level lmao
Pure Boo is the base form of Majin Boo. Everything derives from him, including Grey Boo. So no, he shouldn't be equal to Kid Boo.

Innocent Boo = Good Boo (Less access to Kid Boo) + Grey Boo
Super Boo = Grey Boo (More access to Kid Boo) + Good Boo
Kid Boo = Full access to his pool of power
Buff Boo = Kid Boo + South Kaioshin (Additional power to Kid Boo)
 

xmysticgohanx

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Isn't Grey Boo made up of only Pure Boo? The Kaioshin stuff is all in Fat Boo
 

kriss-

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Grey Boo is Innocent/Super Boo's power split in two. He's not the actual base form of Majin Boo.
 

Zoom

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When Vegeta said Goku's number one, did he include villains such as Buu?
 

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