Mutaito vs Yajirobe

[ahill1]

Yajirobe in his first show-up.

Who wins?

 

[SSJ2]

Mutaito stomps him. At worst Mutaito is on par with the version of Goku who Yajirobe fought, and Yajirobe made it clear that he never wanted to mess with Goku. I even have Mutaito being a bit beyond Goku based on reputation and mastery of martial arts. He is more or less a more skilled version of Goku.. Yajirobe's durability might let him stay in the fight briefly, but he won't last long.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Mutaito is stronger, be it by a little or a fair bit, and ought to be far more skilled in martial arts by virtue of his position, making his victory assured.

 

[ahill1]

Well, Yajirobe could take Goku's full out assault with no damage, to his credit. I'd say he could be decently close to Goku, like 90/100 or so.

 

[SSJ2]

Yet when he saw a fully bloodlusted Goku against Tambourine, he was fearful about fighting Goku again. There's no question that he has no chance here. Being in rivaling range of Goku is pretty irrelevant when he will be up against a superior version of that.

 

[ahill1]

He said that "it's better not to make him (Goku) mad". Goku also complimented Yajirobe, calling him incredible when he killed Cymbal.

 

[SSJ2]

It’s not just that he said that, it’s how he said it.

Evidently seeing a bloodlusted Goku made Yajirobe rethink challenging him so recklessly.

Yajirobe was completely stunned by Goku’s performance against Piccolo. Goku calling Yajirobe incredible has no effect on Yajirobe’s placement. The word incredible is used to describe a multitude of different ki during the series.

Chapter: 44, P5.3
Yamcha: “W-what the heck kind of guy is Goku?! He easily mimicked your technique!”
Kame-sennin: “Mmmm…A-at any rate, Namu’s incredible too for seeing through that technique…!”

Is this evidence that Namu should be able to beat Jackie Chun? Absolutely not, but it’s a worthy compliment. The situation mentioned above is no different. Yajirobe has a respectable amount of power, but it’s made pretty clear that he isn’t quite in Goku’s level, and naturally that goes for Mutaito as well.

 

[ahill1]

Namu is considerably close to Goku though and I'm not arguing Yajirobe could beat Goku, only that he's respectably close. Old Piccolo, once beating up Goku, stated that he's "the farthest a human could go", which should naturally include Mutaito, so Goku's arguably above Mutaito. Besides, it could also be argued Yajirobe was going more off reputation on that panel... old Piccolo Daimao is known to him as a beast against which no fighter stood any chance, so seeing Goku kncoking him down on his ass would expectedly warrant that kind of shocked reaction.

 

[SSJ2]

We are pretty much arguing the same thing then, but you are leaving out the word "about" when Piccolo referred to human limits.

Chapter: 144, P7.1
Context: after seeming to kill Goku
Piccolo: “Naturally, this level is about as far as a human could go.”

Prime Roshi is implied to be at least as strong as 22nd Goku, and Mutaito is above that. He is at minimum on Goku's level @ Piccolo, and likely could be a bit above that given how Piccolo's quote never outright calls Goku the strongest human he's faced. This is assuming that Goku received a Zenkai post Tambourine, btw, if not then it's almost impossible for him to be equal to Mutaito. Regardless, I fail to see how Yajirobe could manage anything against an opponent like Mutaito as I said earlier.

 

[ahill1]

The word "about" indicates that there's a certain proximity between Goku and Mutaito, but it also works with Goku being ahead him but not so much that he's completely and unarguable the best the humans have to offer.

I don't think prime Roshi needs to be above 22nd Goku's level. All Roshi's quote indicates is that young Roshi is > 22nd Roshi, but the corner's standing to 22nd Goku is left in the dark. Yajirobe also needs to be pretty impressive power-wise if his withstanding of Goku's beating prompts Goku to think he's the toughest guy he has ever met. In the anime it's even noticed that Goku hit Yajirobe as hard as he could.

 

[SSJ2]

Nobody is saying that Yajirobe isn't powerful. I have him at 99% of 22nd Tenshinhan's power, which makes sense with Goku calling him the toughest guy he's fought and not the strongest. Not sure what relevance an anime statement would have here, but the manga makes it pretty clear that Goku's effort against Tambourine was much more intense than against Yajirobe. Goku might've been using all of his power but he clearly wasn't going all out. Toughness or not, I really can't see Yajirobe lasting too long against a bloodlusted Goku, and by proxy Mutaito as well.

What is even being argued here? The chain seems pretty simple to me, with only a couple of things that are open to slight interpretation.

Mutaito <=> Goku post Zenkai > Prime Roshi <=> 22nd Goku > 22nd Tenshinhan >= Yajirobe

 

[ahill1]

There's nothing implying Goku didn't go all out vs Yajirobe. Even disregarding the anime's statement (which is something... better than nothing), Yajirobe's surprise at Goku's offensive power vs Tambourine later on might have to do with how visceral Goku was with it, also employing the after image technique firstly to confuse Tambourine, following it with a full power barrage of hits. As I noted prior, Goku was also surprised by Yajirobe's feats against Cymbal, calling him incredible, so if Yajirobe's surprise at Goku's prowess vs Tambourine is to be used as proof that Goku was holding back prior, so can Goku at Yajirobe cutting down Cymbal.

I also see Yajirobe basically equals with Tenshinhan... which could place him very close to Mutaito. It's debatable whether Goku gained any power upon his recovery and since I go with the option of him only regaining the power he displayed at the tournament, I could see Yajirobe and Tenshinhan sharing a close rivals gap with Goku with Mutaito also in the same vicinity.

Kame-Sen'nin states that "even his younger self was no match for Piccolo", which is much more a comparison between his 22nd self and prime, young Roshi... It has not bearing on 22nd Goku and Tenshinhan.

 

[Warmmedown]

We've never seen Yajirobe fight anyone all out with his sword, apart from Cymbal, who he cut with ease once he got serious. We don't know how much closer a fight between Goku (without the nyoibo) and armed Yajirobe would be. The only sword use I remember that gives any indication of the extent of a sword's power up is Yajirobe surprise cutting Vegeta, who was several times stronger than him still (and Vegeta couldn't yet suppress his ki level). That really makes it look like if Yajirobe can catch you unawares he can do serious damage even with a significant power disadvantage.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The only sword use I remember that gives any indication of the extent of a sword's power up is Yajirobe surprise cutting Vegeta, who was several times stronger than him still (and Vegeta couldn't yet suppress his ki level).

It's worth noting though that Oozaru tails seem to be pretty lacking in durability compared to the rest of their body though. Pu-erh was able to cut off Oozaru Goku's tail by turning into a giant pair of scissors, despite his and Oolong's transformations not actually making them stronger.

 

[Warmmedown]

I meant the slash to his back.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That is true. Still, Vegeta was in a heavily debilitated state at the time to the point a full powered attack couldn't even take out a fatigued Kuririn and Gohan nor an invalid Goku and Saiyan Armour tends to be as durable as the user, so Yajirobe being able to pierce it doesn't seem too unbelievable.

 

[Warmmedown]

So I think it does show that Yajirobe with his sword is able to hurt someone who's still probably twice as strong as him (judging from how Vegeta was still easily able to deal with Gohan or Krillin, even after taking additional damage on top of that sword slash, from being landed on by Gohan). And if Mutaito is far less than twice as strong as Yajirobe, Yajirobe should have a good chance of dealing serious damage to him and achieving victory.