Oozaru Vegeta

[SSJ2]

How powerful do you think he was after all of the damage he had taken + the moon ball?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

We're told even Kaioken x5 wouldn't work against him, so at least 40k+. I wouldn't say he ought to be much greater than that though, considering both Goku not using a greater level of Kaioken as a benchmark and Vegeta being shown to not be vastly above a Gohan who couldn't be drastically above the 2.8k level after his tail was cut off.

 

[Keedounan]

I'm not sure.

Oozaru Vegeta being stronger than a hypothetical KKx5 Goku would suggest that he's at least 40,000+ worthy, but if we take the 10x multiplier literally, it doesn't seem consistent with the fact that Gohan could put up a fight against him later on (unless Goku shooting him in the eye caused him to lose that much power). Then again, Goku was also in a rough shape after he used the KKx4.

 

[SSJ2]

Wasn't Goku already in rough shape when he made the Kaioken x5 statement? He could barely move at that point. Perhaps he would have been far less than 40k in his calculation.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If that were the case, he'd most likely have said something like "in this condition" along with it. Not only that, but factoring in his current condition for a Kaioken x5 wouldn't even make sense when he could only handle x4 for an instant when at near enough full power.

 

[SSJ2]

This doesn't seem like a guy who is at full power to me.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That was after using the KKx4 Kamehameha. I was referring to the moment he unleashed it.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah, but his quote about Kaioken x5 comes after that, and it sounds like he is speaking about the current situation.

Chapter: 233 (DBZ 39), P11.3
Goku: “Even if I raise the Kaio-Ken to x5, it still won't have any effect on him!!!!”

Considering Kaio confirmed that Goku's strength was pretty well gone, it doesn't make sense for Goku to be talking about using Kaioken x5 at his full power. He's not speaking in past tense here. He's also speaking completely hypothetically. "Even if", so it doesn't really matter that he was in such bad shape when he said this, he knew it wouldn't be possible anyway.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Whilst that is true, the hypothetical would suggest, if anything, him referring to when he was at his peak. Considering how fatigued he was, it'd seem pretty pointless to even bring it up if referring to his current condition when it would probably amount to be weaker than his x4 at full power or maybe even x3. Seems like a fairly redundant and even counter-intuitive thing to do in order to convey how strong Oozaru Vegeta is if that were the case.

 

[SSJ2]

Honestly I don't see it that way. Goku was trying to portray the hopelessness of the situation by saying that Kaioken x5 wouldn't have any effect, and the narrator makes evident that the Genki Dama was earth's last hope. I don't think the statement needs to be used to portray Vegeta's strength when we directly see his weakened state after his tail was cut - and there's no logical way that he should be above 4,000 at that moment. Unless losing his tail was a cause for losing the bulk of his power, Goku's statement doesn't make sense to me unless he is referring to his weakened condition.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The thing is, you could portray the Genki Dama being Earth's last hope without the statement. It's a completely pointless one when we've already been shown and told how fatigued Goku is and how much the odds are stacked against him even before Vegeta transformed, so it'd come off as very unnecessary if not about Galu's full power.
As for Vegeta's power loss coming from his tail loss, it is possible. We haven't seen an already fatigued Saiyan immediately fighting again after being taken out of Oozaru and losing something as large as a tail should provide the body a good amount of shock. Adding such a loss to an already fatigued Vegeta should logically have some level of affect on him.

 

[Keedounan]

That makes sense. Add to that Goku blasting Vegeta's eye, and I can see why he would be weak enough for Gohan to put up a fight against him while still being 40,000+ material at the time he fought Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Also, to add to all this, it's also made pretty clear Vegeta has never had to endure this much injury in his entire life up to that point, so things that may be an everyday thing for some Saiyans such as eye injuries and tail loss could be naturally more potent to affecting his Ki. Lines up fairly well with Goku's statement about a low class surpassing an elite with hard work.

 

[Keedounan]

Also, to add to all this, it's also made pretty clear Vegeta has never had to endure this much injury in his entire life up to that point, so things that may be an everyday thing for some Saiyans such as eye injuries and tail loss could be naturally more potent to affecting his Ki. Lines up fairly well with Goku's statement about a low class surpassing an elite with hard work.

It also makes his overreaction to Goku actually drawing blood from him more understandable.

 

[SSJ2]

The thing is, you could portray the Genki Dama being Earth's last hope without the statement. It's a completely pointless one when we've already been shown and told how fatigued Goku is and how much the odds are stacked against him even before Vegeta transformed, so it'd come off as very unnecessary if not about Galu's full power.
As for Vegeta's power loss coming from his tail loss, it is possible. We haven't seen an already fatigued Saiyan immediately fighting again after being taken out of Oozaru and losing something as large as a tail should provide the body a good amount of shock. Adding such a loss to an already fatigued Vegeta should logically have some level of affect on him.

Also, to add to all this, it's also made pretty clear Vegeta has never had to endure this much injury in his entire life up to that point, so things that may be an everyday thing for some Saiyans such as eye injuries and tail loss could be naturally more potent to affecting his Ki. Lines up fairly well with Goku's statement about a low class surpassing an elite with hard work.

Good points. I agree.

 

[GSM123]

Worth pointing out Gohan had taken a bit of a senzu after Goku arriced, so he might be a bit better than his 2,800 self by the time he fought Vegeta.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't think the Senzu would factor into his power here. We see later on that his full power when arriving on Namek was around 1.5k, so whatever Zenkai he may have gained from the senzu allowing his rage boost to scale linearly would be very questionable.