Pre Nail Piccolo

[SSJ2]

How strong do you have him? Do you have him above or below Gohan at the time?

 

[Pyro]

300,000 is the sweet spot. Just enough that doubling his power is only 12% above Freeza's 1st form. That's not stronger than Gohan for me, but at least it's better than Krillin.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Far above Nail, but not close to being in the hundreds of thousands battle power-wise. The idea of him being more or less 300k hinges on the boost Kami provided being a linear 2x or so one regardless of what his power currently is, which doesn't make much sense when seeing how strong his original self was before and after the fission and comparing it to Boo. It would also create the idea that someone with roughly 20x more Ki than Kami would only provide about a 2-3x greater boost, which if we're taking things linearly enough to examine Kami's boost obviously can't be the case.

That said, I'd say Piccolo needn't be much greater than 50k with his weights and 60k without them, with the comparatively small boost he got from reuniting with Kami being due to how strong he'd become to the point the old meng could offer little compared to what he might have on Namek.

 

[SSJ2]

Far above Nail, but not close to being in the hundreds of thousands battle power-wise. The idea of him being more or less 300k hinges on the boost Kami provided being a linear 2x or so one regardless of what his power currently is, which doesn't make much sense when seeing how strong his original self was before and after the fission and comparing it to Boo. It would also create the idea that someone with roughly 20x more Ki than Kami would only provide about a 2-3x greater boost, which if we're taking things linearly enough to examine Kami's boost obviously can't be the case.

That said, I'd say Piccolo needn't be much greater than 50k with his weights and 60k without them, with the comparatively small boost he got from reuniting with Kami being due to how strong he'd become to the point the old meng could offer little compared to what he might have on Namek.

I by no means think that the boost has to be a linear 2x, but I also find it impossible to apply any type of logic to Kami's boost. Master Molester Guru claimed that their power was split in two when they initially split. When Piccolo and Kami merged in the Android arc, it can be deduced that it resulted in roughly a 2x gain in power. If the far weaker split also resulted in a 2x difference in power, why not keep it simple and apply that to Nail's estimation as well?

 

[Tapion]

The infamous Legendario book guide states that Piccolo's power was multiplied by five upon assimilating with Nail, if you're willing to trust that. That'd place Piccolo comfortably above 200,000.

 

[Warmmedown]

If Piccolo was that weak, why did he even bother asking to go Namek? Just because he wanted to see his homeland? Did he really think he would be any use in combat?

He knew Vegeta was too weak to compete with the Ginyu Force, but maybe hearing of Goku's success made him believe he could be useful, since it wasn't that long ago that he and Goku were on-par.

 

[Tapion]

Far above Nail, but not close to being in the hundreds of thousands battle power-wise. The idea of him being more or less 300k hinges on the boost Kami provided being a linear 2x or so one regardless of what his power currently is, which doesn't make much sense when seeing how strong his original self was before and after the fission and comparing it to Boo.

The argument I use is that Nail himself would have believed the boost to be a linear 2x when assessing Piccolo's power, regardless of it being true or not, since he heard the Grand Elder saying the son of Katas' fission cut his power in half -- it's only logical for him to have assumed they would have doubled their power if they'd reunited.

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

I have him at 500k. He thought he could take Frieza.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If Piccolo was that weak, why did he even bother asking to go Namek? Just because he wanted to see his homeland? Did he really think he would be any use in combat?

Piccolo didn't have an accurate grasp of how strong Freeza was. Hell, he never got the chance to fully gauge Vegeta on Earth, so his only real benchmark was that he'd be facing someone far, far stronger than Nappa.

The argument I use is that Nail himself would have believed the boost to be a linear 2x when assessing Piccolo's power, regardless of it being true or not, since he heard the Grand Elder saying the son of Katas' fission cut his power in half -- it's only logical for him to have assumed they would have doubled their power if they'd reunited.

Even assuming that though, we saw a far stronger Piccolo got what can be assumed as more or less a 2x boost from someone possibly a million times weaker than him. Assuming Nail had full belief of Kami and Piccolo's power being divided evenly, a hypothetical Kami that's at minimum above 42k should result in a far stronger fusion than a SSJ tier Piccolo fusing with one not even in the 300 range. If anything, I'd say Nail assuming so and being one of the most knowledgeable on how Namekian fusion works would severely limit how strong you can have Piccolo.

The infamous Legendario book guide states that Piccolo's power was multiplied by five upon assimilating with Nail, if you're willing to trust that. That'd place Piccolo comfortably above 200,000.

This is an interesting find though. Do you have the link to the statement/image?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Less than 200K IMO.

 

[Warmmedown]

Surely Piccolo had a good idea of how strong 1st Form Freeza (maybe 2nd too, can't remember if he left before Freeza's transformation) and the Ginyu Force were from King Kai's commentary?

 

[Tapion]

Worth noting that Piccolo sensed Gohan and Krillin's energies as soon as he walked into Namek and still thought he could save them both from Freeza:

Piccolo: You should know I’m in a hurry to save [the Earthlings]...so I’ll have to leave you here to die.


The anime also has Piccolo confusing Nail's dying ki with Gohan's and calling it small:

Spoiler

Even assuming that though, we saw a far stronger Piccolo got what can be assumed as more or less a 2x boost from someone possibly a million times weaker than him. Assuming Nail had full belief of Kami and Piccolo's power being divided evenly, a hypothetical Kami that's at minimum above 42k should result in a far stronger fusion than a SSJ tier Piccolo fusing with one not even in the 300 range. If anything, I'd say Nail assuming so and being one of the most knowledgeable on how Namekian fusion works would severely limit how strong you can have Piccolo.

I don't think Piccolo's assimilation with Nail is the same thing as his fusion with Kami, though. One instance represented two halves of the same entity reuniting, and the other represented two different warriors merging.

This is an interesting find though. Do you have the link to the statement/image?

Spoiler

A stance that conveys pure power!!

Chapter 295: Piccolo's power has increased five-fold, and his stance conveys immense [levels of] strength!

 

[SSJ2]

That guidebook has been discredited by its name alone. The only legendary guidebook is Dragon Ball Fact.

 

[Hector]

Far above Nail, but not close to being in the hundreds of thousands battle power-wise. The idea of him being more or less 300k hinges on the boost Kami provided being a linear 2x or so one regardless of what his power currently is, which doesn't make much sense when seeing how strong his original self was before and after the fission and comparing it to Boo. It would also create the idea that someone with roughly 20x more Ki than Kami would only provide about a 2-3x greater boost, which if we're taking things linearly enough to examine Kami's boost obviously can't be the case.

That said, I'd say Piccolo needn't be much greater than 50k with his weights and 60k without them, with the comparatively small boost he got from reuniting with Kami being due to how strong he'd become to the point the old meng could offer little compared to what he might have on Namek.

Where do you place humans post King Kai?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

[mention]Hector[/mention] Below Kuririn, who's V-Jump entry of 75k I agree with.

[mention]Warmmeup[/mention] Not really. You'd have to make pretty big assumptions about how much info Kaio filled him in on, and it was made pretty clear Freeza's actual power was far beyond his expectations).

Worth noting that Piccolo sensed Gohan and Krillin's energies as soon as he walked into Namek and still thought he could save them both from Freeza:

Piccolo: You should know I’m in a hurry to save [the Earthlings]...so I’ll have to leave you here to die.

It's made apparent though that Piccolo had little to no chance of saving Gohan and Kuririn, with him not arguing against Nail's notion that Freeza would kill him. I'd find Piccolo's statement to be more of a case of him not wanting to sit around and be killed without a fight more than him having confidence in saving them.

The anime also has Piccolo confusing Nail's dying ki with Gohan's and calling it small:

Spoiler

Wouldn't that do the opposite of supporting Piccolo's strength though when believing Gohan's Ki to be comparable to a dying Nail? Seems to only point towards Gohan not outputting much Ki.

I don't think Piccolo's assimilation with Nail is the same thing as his fusion with Kami, though. One instance represented two halves of the same entity reuniting, and the other represented two different warriors merging.

I agree with that notion, though I'd say it'd be a stretch to say that this would result in the assimilation with Kami being comparably stupendous or limited regardless of the gap between them.

Chapter 295: Piccolo's power has increased five-fold, and his stance conveys immense [levels of] strength![/spoiler]

Well, I concede there's some hard evidence supporting Piccolo's power. The source may be questionable in some entries, but the same can be said of many guidebooks and it's better than nothing.

 

[Tapion]

It's made apparent though that Piccolo had little to no chance of saving Gohan and Kuririn, with him not arguing against Nail's notion that Freeza would kill him. I'd find Piccolo's statement to be more of a case of him not wanting to sit around and be killed without a fight more than him having confidence in saving them.

It was established earlier that Gohan and Krillin would've been capable of making a difference in a battle with first form Freeza despite being significantly weaker than him. Taking that into account, it isn't out of the realm of the possibility that Piccolo may've thought he could help turn the tide of the conflict if everyone fought together.

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

It's made apparent though that Piccolo had little to no chance of saving Gohan and Kuririn, with him not arguing against Nail's notion that Freeza would kill him. I'd find Piccolo's statement to be more of a case of him not wanting to sit around and be killed without a fight more than him having confidence in saving them.

It was established earlier that Gohan and Krillin would've been capable of making a difference in a battle with first form Freeza despite being significantly weaker than him. Taking that into account, it isn't out of the realm of the possibility that Piccolo may've thought he could help turn the tide of the conflict if everyone fought together.

Like with Nappa. Writers are too lazy but Piccolo doesn't know that.

 

[sei'taer]

I find the power levels in this topic ludicrous to be honest. He was on Kaio's 6 days and got like a 100x boost?

 

[SSJ2]

Gohan's power was increased thousands of times by an old man dancing around him.

 

[Hector]

Far above Nail, but not close to being in the hundreds of thousands battle power-wise. The idea of him being more or less 300k hinges on the boost Kami provided being a linear 2x or so one regardless of what his power currently is, which doesn't make much sense when seeing how strong his original self was before and after the fission and comparing it to Boo. It would also create the idea that someone with roughly 20x more Ki than Kami would only provide about a 2-3x greater boost, which if we're taking things linearly enough to examine Kami's boost obviously can't be the case.

That said, I'd say Piccolo needn't be much greater than 50k with his weights and 60k without them, with the comparatively small boost he got from reuniting with Kami being due to how strong he'd become to the point the old meng could offer little compared to what he might have on Namek.

Do you think Kamiccolo was more than 2x Piccolo?