Captain Cadaver said:
VampireWicked said:
Which Tournament of Power are you talking, anime or manga?
Android18 was not on Base Goku's level, maybe when he was exahusted or early Tournament but not when fully rested.
I'll just cover this part of the response, since Keedounan did the rest perfectly.
I'd assume we'd be talking about the anime since that's the route you usually choose for your versus match-ups (though additional specification would've been nice). If we're talking about the manga, Kuririn's power seems up in the air. He refers to himself as having gotten a little rusty, though he was also capable of dodging Magetta in a similar timeframe to what Gohan and Piccolo did. Even if assuming he'd indeed gotten weaker, it wasn't implied to be by much and for reasons already mentioned, the statements surrounding him in the Freeza Arc and his gains by the time of the Cell Arc would place him at least well into the hundred thousands, or at bare minimum the millions if going by Gero's calculations as fact (which is a very dubious point, but it's there if wanting to use it).
krillin's PowerLevel drop, It was implied to be by much as even a bullet was able to cause harm.
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2. Krillins gains by the Cell arc sure possibly hundred thousand maybe, but given how little & slow the gains were for characters like Vegeta & Goku were i very much doubt hundreds of thousands let alone millions.
With all the training Vegeta/Goku does they didn't break 120,000,000 in base confirmed by Lord Beerus.
Verses what little training Krillin does including a level far less intense than the two Saiyans, you have him breaking the millions bare minimum.
Captain Cadaver said:
#18 was capable of overpowering Tupper, who was strong enough to lock Base Goku in place. She also overpowered Ribrianne's strongest form, despite Base Ribrianne having been shown to momentarily fight with SSJ Vegeta.
3. YES Android18 should overpower an enemy that gives Base Goku trouble, but that's not how it went the entire duration of the Tournament.
YES Android18 showed she was on a level above Base Goku, however it didn't remain that way as She did fail to get to her feet in an attack that her, her brother who is far stronger then her by the way, & Goku was trapped in.
But Goku in Base manages to stand, Transforms, & breaks the attack, followed by other Base form feats.
Giving Krillin credit based on who he's assisting doesn't instantly increase his PowerLevel beyond what's officially stated.
It doesn't work that way, if it did then lets credit Buu Arc Vegeta with could do very well solo against SuperBuu based on the Vegetto fusion.
Keedounan said:
Sure, I won't even pretend it's equivalent. It's still good enough that pretending that Krillin represents less than 1% of 18's power simply makes no sense. 100,000 isn't even Ginyu level. Ginyu wouldn't even make the cut in ToP, let alone be able to keep up with 18. Be it in sparring match or in ToP.
lol Why not, Ginyu has the Body Change technique, he would've been great.
But that's my point for this thread, techniques not just power.
Krilin could be weaker than Escanor but could his techniques be enough.
Keedounan said:
We do know that's it's enough of an increase to be far above 100,000, which is all that matters.
I'm very....extremely doubtful.
Krillin doesn't train like Vegeta/Goku, & how little the gains were since the Frieza saga.
I don't know.
Keedounan said:
You keep saying this, but it doesn't make this feat meaningless. Just less impressive than it would be in a 1v1. Would you claim that Zangya is below 2nd form Cell because she only managed to defeat the likes of SS Gohan by assist?
No but i wouldn't claim Zangya is equal to SuperSaiyan Gohan if the only feat is by assist.
You can't say it's all you when it's not all you.
That difference in PowerLevel is going to be noticeable when it is one on one.
So yes Yes it does make it less meaningless.
Which means more, that by yourself you were able to lift a 1000lbs or that with all your training it actually took you plus other individuals just to get that weight less than an inch off the ground?
How much does that mean.
Keedounan said:
Vegeta scoffed at Zarbon implying he'd be useful against Freeza, while he thought Krillin could. Even without the official number, it's already enough to prove Krillin >>> Zarbon by the end of Namek arc.
Yes useful, how high were Vegeta & Gohan's PowerLevel at that point ?
Who do you think Vegeta was dependant on more, Krillin or Gohan.
Keedounan said:
So yeah, 1v1 feats/statements are far better. I don't think I've ever pretended otherwise. Does that mean "assist" feats can't be used at all to measure one's 1v1 worth? Sure don't.
That's exactly what i did, measure his worth.
I'm not short changing Krillin or denying how valuable he is.
But i'm not making him a monster powerhouse because of assisted feats when he's the weakest on a team either.
Keedounan said:
Even if Krillin was just at 75,000 (which makes no sense, given his performance in Super), an over 1 million enemy had to dodge his Kienzans after one of them cut off his tail. Can Escanor survive that?
I'm not discrediting Krillin's techniques, that's why i choose him for the thread.
Escanor surviving a destructo disk is what i'm hoping members question.
