"Prime" Moriah

[ahill1]

Moriah apparently rivaled Kaido at some point. Do you think Moriah was really strong in the past, with enough power to rival a Yonkou or Kaido was just that "weak"?

 

[SSJ2]

I think everyone was weaker in general. Doflamingo said something like "you aren't enough to cut it anymore" when he tried killing Moriah at Marineford. So in the past he was.

 

[Uchiha]

I think Moriah was stronger and he's a lot weaker now. But I also think everyone was weaker in the past.

 

[Papasmurf]

Moriah = Gohan

 

[ahill1]

Doflamingo said something like "you aren't enough to cut it anymore" when he tried killing Moriah at Marineford

Could you tell me the chapter Doflamingo said it? Not doubting you, but I'd like to see it.

 

[SSJ2]

http://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics/Chapter-581?id=328821#17

 

[ahill1]

Thanks. Doffy said Moriah isn't strong enough to be a Shichibukai anymore. Can't it be seen under the perspective that you've to be stronger now to hold the title of Ouka Shichibukai, rather than Moriah having gotten weaker? Not saying it's this though.

 

[Papasmurf]

They hastily recruited Law, Buggy and that Whitebeard knockoff, so I doubt it. Seems like they decided if Moriah couldn't defeat Luffy he wasn't worth keeping anymore.

 

[ahill1]

Whitebeard's "son" is pretty strong, said to be comparable with his "father" in strength alone.

Buggy was defeated by a way weaker Luffy than that who defeated Moriah. We also don't know that much about their motives of recruiting Buggy, it could just be due to his great aval of informations.

I honestly don't remember the details of Law's recruitment, but he's way stronger than the likes of Moriah, probably at Jimbe's level or so, so I don't see the problem with him being accepted as a Shichibukai.

 

[Papasmurf]

There's nothing suggesting that the other Shichibukai like Jinbe or Handcock were somehow below the new standard, so I don't think that's the reason.

Buggy's also extremely weak, but his prisoner army is more than powerful enough to make up for that. Still, the fact that they recruited him on that alone shows they were hasty for replacements.

 

[Uchiha]

Law > Jinbei unless around water, imo

 

[Papasmurf]

Although we don't know how strong Law was pre-timeskip really

 

[ahill1]

There's nothing suggesting that the other Shichibukai like Jinbe or Handcock were somehow below the new standard, so I don't think that's the reason.

Well, I just don't understand why you cited Law while he's not some weak ass faggot like Moriah. I said that MAYBE Doffy's statement means Moriah's strength doesn't fit the new era Shichibukais, who should have developed their powers, rather than exactly meaning Moriah got way weaker.

If Moriah was really strong in the past, to a point of rivaling Kaido (who maybe was also weaker than now), I don't see the reason to kill the man; it'd be much more smarter to give him an advise to stop slacking off and get on shape once again.

Buggy's also extremely weak, but his prisoner army is more than powerful enough to make up for that. Still, the fact that they recruited him on that alone shows they were hasty for replacements.

You also said they decided it wasn't worth to keep Moriah anymore because he lost to Luffy. Buggy lost to a way weaker Luffy, so his strength isn't what led them to pick him.

 

[Papasmurf]

The government specifically states a second Shichibukai being defeated after Crocodile was too big for the WG to tolerate and sent Kuma to cover it up, so I think his defeat was one of the bigger reasons why he was disposed of. Hell, they wanted to cover it up as a death in battle to protect the Shichibukai's image as a powerful force, further implying Moriah just wasn't up to the task following his defeat.

And yeah Buggy's main reason for being recruited is to keep the prisoners he has in his crew in check imo

 

[ahill1]

The government specifically states a second Shichibukai being defeated after Crocodile was too big for the WG to tolerate and sent Kuma to cover it up, so I think his defeat was one of the bigger reasons why he was disposed of. Hell, they wanted to cover it up as a death in battle to protect the Shichibukai's image as a powerful force, further implying Moriah just wasn't up to the task following his defeat.

What do you think of Doflamingo's line (you're not strong enough to hold the title as Shichibukai anymore) then? Do you think it means Moriah got weaker?

 

[SSJ2]

Keep in mind Moriah is 48, so he probably rivalled Kaido when they were rookies.