Samurai Jack runs DB Gauntlet

[Ultimate Cell]

How far would go Jack in Dragonball? This is end of series Jack.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

In terms of power and durability, Jack is Large Building level, so basically around the top tiers of the RRA Arc (Post-Karin Goku, Taopaipai, #8, etc.) and likely most of the 22nd TB. Jack is far faster than any Part 1 DB character though seeing as how he's dodged sunlight and has put up a decent effort against some lightspeed objects. Combine that with his great stamina capable of fighting for days on end and he solos Part 1, especially considering he can negate durability against evil beings at least up to Country level like Aku.

If pitting him against Z era characters, it would depend how much stock you put in Piccolo's moon bust. Even without it being an outlier, I'd say the 2nd DB Moon is still nowhere near as dense as ours, though it would still provide mid-tier Relativistic speed for the cast. Via speed and stamina, Jack could still probably get up to 8k Galu.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Jack comfortably survived the impact of several exploding missiles aimed at him, and withstood the explosion of a large building after having fought for some time. He's also walked off an atmospheric re-entry, and dodged beams of sunlight from a very close range. Unlike normal attacks in the series, his sword can destroy Aku, who was powerful enough to cause the extinction of the dinosaurs by simply crash-landing on Earth when he was a tiny fragment of himself. In addition, Jack can become nigh-invisible in the presence of light by tying his robe around exposed parts of his body, and can literally fight all day.

As for the gauntlet: whilst Jack is incredibly skilled and experienced in combat, his raw strength and durability isn't up to par with DB top tiers. But taking into account his speed (Relativistic+) and sword (which is capable of negating the durability of evil beings that are at least Country level), he could solo DB (1st series).

 

[Ultimate Cell]

In terms of power and durability, Jack is Large Building level, so basically around the top tiers of the RRA Arc (Post-Karin Goku, Taopaipai, #8, etc.) and likely most of the 22nd TB. Jack is far faster than any Part 1 DB character though seeing as how he's dodged sunlight and has put up a decent effort against some lightspeed objects. Combine that with his great stamina capable of fighting for days on end and he solos Part 1, especially considering he can negate durability against evil beings at least up to Country level like Aku.

If pitting him against Z era characters, it would depend how much stock you put in Piccolo's moon bust. Even without it being an outlier, I'd say the 2nd DB Moon is still nowhere near as dense as ours, though it would still provide mid-tier Relativistic speed for the cast. Via speed and stamina, Jack could still probably get up to 8k Galu.

How would Jack even defeat guys like Roshi, he blew up a moon in the tournament. Also I find it hard to think he could get up to 8k Goku. Sures he's fast, but couldn't Goku and guys lower than him like Nappa or Raditz just tank hits from his sword?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

How would Jack even defeat guys like Roshi, he blew up a moon in the tournament. Also I find it hard to think he could get up to 8k Goku. Sures he's fast, but couldn't Goku and guys lower than him like Nappa or Raditz just tank hits from his sword?

Roshi's moon bust was clearly an outlier considering it's treat as less impressive in the context of the narrative than Piccolo Daimao's clear limits of City busting. Also, Roshi seemingly can't use that form for actual combat.

It's not just Jack's speed, but his stamina being superior to anything shown prior to the Namek Arc. He could most likely outlast any Part 1 character and many Saiyan Arc characters considering he's been shown to have fought for days on end.

 

[Spiral-Force]

And DB tends to place an emphasis on the danger of an off-guard attack, which Jack can capitalise on via speedblitz.

 

[Tapion]

Jack dodging sunlight seems like an outlier. He has that feat, and a feat where he tags a near lightspeed spaceship. Everything else is strictly bullet dodging or slightly better. His best feats aside from that are hypersonic, which is what Tao Pai Pai surpasses.

As far as strength and durability goes, 22nd Budokai onwards surpasses him. So I'd say he caps at the 22nd Budokai.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Jack dodging sunlight seems like an outlier. He has that feat, and a feat where he tags a near lightspeed spaceship. Everything else is strictly bullet dodging or slightly better. His best feats aside from that are hypersonic, which is what Tao Pai Pai surpasses.

The low-end speaks volumes about the level of Jack's opponents and/or their tech, if anything. He's typically opposed by robotic foes with generic weaponry that don't push him to go anywhere near all-out. Nothing outright stops the high-end from being taken into account.

 

[Tapion]

@Spiral-Force

I mean, if we're going by that route where the high end is legit Goku ran out of a ring and fetched glasses before Tien's Solar Flare could even reach him. That's a better feat than Jack's sunlight dodge.

 

[Son Gokū]

I wanna see Jack easily kill a master fighter with his tongue.
If so, I wanna see him easily make a tornado by spinning in circles for fun.

 

[Spiral-Force]

I mean, if we're going by that route where the high end is legit Goku ran out of a ring and fetched glasses before Tien's Solar Flare could even reach him. That's a better feat than Jack's sunlight dodge.

Nah, that's a iffy one because in the manga it's not shown that Goku does that after the Solar Flare is released. Goku knew what was coming before Tien even called the attack out, so it'd make sense for him to start moving before it.

The anime counterpart of the scene is kinda weird because some sort of light was shining in Goku's face before he even moved and it didn't blind him, so I wouldn't rely on it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That, and Popo's "Faster than lightning" statement, metaphor or not, would be pointless if Goku was already faster than light at that point.

 

[Tapion]

I'm fairly sure Goku just yelled "argh!" in that panel in the left in the original japanese text. Regardless of that, Tien said he had put his guard down right after Goku is shown attacking him, which wouldn't make sense if Goku had reacted to Tien's aim instead of the attack itself. Tien would have directly seen Goku moving in that case.. It's more likely that he moved at the exact same time as Tien cast it, which'd still require relativistic reaction timing.


It's an outlier, but so is Jack dodging sunlight. The reason why I mentioned that feat is precisely because we shouldn't go by the high ends. Why should we take 2 instances over every single other episode? One of his best serious feats, the water drop fight feat, is only hypersonic, and it's consistent with 99% of the rest of the series where he is shown dodging bullets, missiles, etc.

 

[Tapion]

And no, Popo telling Goku to move faster than lightning is not metaphorical. He first tells Goku to be as calm as the sky, and faster than lightning. He then clarifies that what he meant by being as calm as the sky was for Goku to empty his mind, but then he reinforces that he did literally mean to tell him to be faster than lightning. That already goes against any metaphor explanations.

Later on, we see Piccolo Jr's ki blast traveling the diameter of an island that is thousands of kilometers long in the time it takes Goku to fall to the ground after a linear jump. So it crossed 1000+ of kms within roughly half second, putting it near the two thousand mach range. That's considerably faster than lightning, which ranges from the mid hundreds mach to ~Mach 1200.

Kid Goku in his very first appearance is already superhuman in short burst speed, since he can catch up to pterosaurs. By the time of the 21st Budokai he is already a bullet timer, by the Red Ribbon Arc he can deflect continuous machine gunfire, and then when he takes on Tao Pai Pai he is hypersonic via scaling to the pillar feat. I really don't see a way for Jack to get past the 22rd Budokai, personally.

 

[Spiral-Force]

I'm fairly sure Goku just yelled "argh!" in that panel in the left in the original japanese text. Regardless of that, Tien said he had put his guard down right after Goku is shown attacking him, which wouldn't make sense if Goku had reacted to Tien's aim instead of the attack itself. Tien would have directly seen Goku moving in that case.. It's more likely that he moved at the exact same time as Tien cast it, which'd still require relativistic reaction timing.

It's not about what Goku said, it's about his knowledge and his gesture of readiness. He knew of Solar Flare at that point because Tien used it on Roshi, so there's no reason for him to wait until it's unleashed before escaping. The user of Solar Flare is not blinded by the light when it is in use, so Tien's failure to realise what Goku did is a matter of his own incompetence moreso than anything else. For example, when he used it on Roshi, he had no problem locating him and delivering a physical attack.

 

[Tapion]

There might be "no reason", but the actual burden of the proof would be claiming he did not dodge it directly and instead aim timed it. The scans show Goku with his guard on and Tien releasing the technique. The standard assumption is that he avoided the attack after it's been fired. At best, Goku and the attack moved at the same time, which'd still require relativistic reactions.

The user is not blinded by the attack, but they would still be unable to see the battlefield due to the intense light covering it, even if it doesn't directly affect their own eyes. If you're playing a fighting video game and you use a light based attack against another player, it won't blind your eyes, but it will still prevent you from seeing anything in the screen for a while.

And the Roshi example doesn't prove much, since Tien knew exactly where Roshi before using the attack was and heard his scream, so he could easily travel to his location even in the light bath. The evidence for his battle with Goku, however, suggests the latter did not aim dodge. Not to mention that scan seems to go against your argument. It shows that Tien isn't as incompetent as you say.

 

[Spiral-Force]

There might be "no reason", but the actual burden of the proof would be claiming he did not dodge it directly and instead aim timed it. The scans show Goku with his guard on and Tien releasing the technique. The standard assumption is that he avoided the attack after it's been fired. At best, Goku and the attack moved at the same time, which'd still require relativistic reactions.

This "standard assumption" that you speak of is a product of your mind and isn't demonstrated to be supported by the actual source material. After Goku puts up his guard there is a panel of Tien shouting the attack prior to exhibiting it, so it's not like Goku didn't have a window of opportunity to get away after Tien did his pose.

Lessening the risk of being effected by the attack is the most sensible plan of action.

The user is not blinded by the attack, but they would still be unable to see the battlefield due to the intense light covering it, even if it doesn't directly affect their own eyes. If you're playing a fighting video game and you use a light based attack against another player, it won't blind your eyes, but it will still prevent you from seeing anything in the screen for a while.

It isn't suggested that Solar Flare prevents Tien from identifying the opponent, so your video game logic doesn't hold any value in this context.

And the Roshi example doesn't prove much, since Tien knew exactly where Roshi before using the attack was and heard his scream, so he could easily travel to his location even in the light bath. The evidence for his battle with Goku, however, suggests the latter did not aim dodge. Not to mention that scan seems to go against your argument. It shows that Tien isn't as incompetent as you say.

Tien knew where Goku was standing and went towards his destination by simply moving forward, so the light produced by the attack does not appear to be the cause of Tien's blunder. The Roshi/Tien scan from earlier supports this.

Incompetence is the inability to do something successfully. Tien was incompetent in the sense that he couldn't figure out how the Solar Flare flopped against Goku.