Speed Does Not Correlate With Strength

kriss-

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At least not for every character. There is more underlying the two attributes than meets the eye. Below, I've gathered sufficient evidence to debunk the notion that the two characteristics scale linearly.

Chapter: 104, P1.2-3
Context: Goku kicked Akkuman with incredible speed.
Goku: “You don’t seem too strong, either.”
Akkuman: “Wh-what…?!! How dare you be so flippant towards a devil…!!”
In this scan, Goku makes a clear distinction between speed and power, as if one isn't necessarily the same as the other.

Chapter: 216 (DBZ 22), P2.3
Context: talking about Kuririn’s scattering ki blast
Piccolo: “Stupendous energy, but no speed!! Almost as if he’s telling them to dodge…!!”
Interestingly, even in amplified Chi attacks the principal of speed correlating with strength isn't at all relevant.

hapter: 227 (DBZ 33), P1.3, P2.1
Kuririn: “Guh…Goku, how’d you do that? Was that something you were taught by Lord Kaio?
Goku: “Yeah. It’s called Kaio-Ken!”
Goku: “You control all the ki in your body…momentarily amplifying it. If you get it right, your power, speed, destructive force, and defensive force all become many times greater…”
Goku explains that the Kaio-Ken amplifies the attributes of the user. However, in order to amplify all three, one has to get the technique just right. The interesting thing about this quote is that by increasing your power doesn't mean that your speed & destructive force will all increase. They are three very different characteristics that don't work completely in tune with one another.

Chapter: 282 (DBZ 88), P2.3,
Burta: “W-when did you…get behind me?! I’m the fastest in the universe…”
Goku: “Well then, you’d be the second fastest in the universe, wouldn’tcha?

2. Burta [#FR1#BUT]
Chapter: 273 (DBZ 79), P5.1
Context: Vegeta tried to throw a dragonball so far away that the Ginyu Special-Squad wouldn’t be able to find it, but Burta caught it.
Ginyu: “Ahhh, I get it… Throw them so far that we won’t be able to get them, eh? Too bad Burta here is the fastest in the universe!”
Ginyu's battle power is 120,000 while Burta's is only 40,000ish, yet Ginyu regards him as the fastest in the Universe.

Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P10.3
Ginyu: “He’s fast! Is his speed greater than mine?!”
A battle power of 90,000 is even quicker than one of 120,000. A fairly clear distinction that works against the norm.

Chapter: 287 (DBZ 93), P2.2
Context: after Ginyu steals Goku’s body
Ginyu: “Fuhahahaha…! This body’s even faster!”
Despite having a battle power 33% higher than Goku's Base form, Ginyu clearly feels that Goku's body is faster than his own. Again, this works against the notion that battle powers work on a linear scale.

Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P8.4
Goku: “That bastard’s got outrageous speed too…Well then, what am I gonna do?..
Goku was already aware of Frieza's overwhelming power, but he didn't quite except Frieza to possess such tremendous speed. If Frieza was already a ridiculously powerful tyrant, it would be an obvious expectation for his speed to be equally formidable; to Goku, that wasn't originally the case.

Chapter: 302 (DBZ 108), P7.5
Freeza: “So you’ve lightened yourself up by removing that heavy equipment, huh?...Meaning that you’ve sharpened your speed even further…Looks like you’re pretty confident…”
Piccolo has sharpened his 'speed' not his power.

Chapter: 302 (DBZ 108), P9.4
Piccolo: “Damn him! You may be more powerful, but I’m faster! You couldn’t catch up to me even if you spent your entire lifetime!”
Despite Frieza being in an entirely different weight than Piccolo in terms of power, Piccolo makes the adherence that just because Frieza is more powerful, doesn't necessarily mean he's stronger. One of the quotes above makes it clear that Frieza is fairly quick and agile for his battle power, while someone like Ginyu is not.

Chapter: 368 (DBZ 174), P5.5-7
Piccolo: “Your speed is pretty good...But your punch lacks weight.”
No.17: "What? Say, who do you think you’re talking to? I’m Android No.17, the strongest in history…”
A great example is the quote above. It makes the clear distinction that I'm siding with; speed does not correlate with power on a linear scale for everyone. Android 17 is quite nimble for someone of his battle power -like Frieza, but he's not strong in comparison to another.

Chapter: 373 (DBZ 179), P5.4, P6.1, P8.3
Cell: “Even I’m surprised at this magnificent speed…Obviously this is thanks to absorbing No.17…I wonder what my power’s like? [he blasts No.16] Hoh…Seems that’s gone up quite a bit too…”
Semi-Perfect Cell fully expected for his battle power to shoot up, but he didn't expect his speed to shoot up quite so far. He remarks that his newly found speed is 'magnificent' which supersedes all original estimates he had; or, battle power correlates with speed on a linear scale.

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P10.3, P13.1-4
Context: Goku just achieved Super Saiyan Grade III for the first time.
Gohan: “Ab-absolutely incredible power! You’ll definitely be able to defeat Cell like this!”
[ ]
Goku: “I can’t win like this…Probably not…[ ] With my muscles swelled up like this, my power greatly increases, but it kills my speed. Huge power doesn’t mean anything if I can’t hit my opponent…And it uses up energy at too intense a rate. Balance-wise, regular Super Saiyan is best. I know that well enough…

Chapter: 388 (DBZ 194), P2.3-4
Context: Trunks was shown the downside of Super Saiyan Grade III: its lack of speed.
Trunks: “I-I see, so that’s why father never performed this transformation…He knew this would happen…It’s just like Cell said…I-I’ve been such a fool…”
The greatest example of this is the time when the Saiyans first achieved their Grade II transformations. Their power shot up drastically but their speed didn't.

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P6.4
Context: after fighting Gohan a little
Cell: “You’re a quick little brat…! How about I go all-out, in speed at least?”
Perfect Cells power that he used against Goku is sufficient in harming and owning someone on Kid Gohans level. The only difference between the two is speed; hence why Perfect Cell goes on to call Gohan a 'quick little brat', because he can't hit him. It's not Perfect Cell stating that he isn't currently powerful enough to defeat someone of Gohan's calibre.

Chapter: 411 (DBZ 217), P8.1
Context: after Cell bulks up
Trunks: “He’s using a transformation that’s too concerned with power, so his speed can’t keep up…Cell himself is making the same mistake he pointed out to me…! He’s really lost it…”
Out of anger and disparity, Cell increases his strength as much as possible without the realization that his speed can't keep up. Yet another clear distinction.

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P9.2, P11.3
Context: as Gohan and Kaioshin flee from Boo
Gohan: “It’s alright! I’m confident in my speed!”
*Boo quickly catches up to them*
Gohan: “…! Th-that can’t be…!”
Even during the events of the Majin Boo saga, the notion is obvious. The Fat Majin Boo increased to such a drastic level that he was able to single handily single shot Gohan Ssj or Ssj2 had serious trouble with. Yet Gohan felt compelled that he could outrace Boo. Sure, he was wrong. But that doesn't take from the merits of the argument; speed does not correlate with strength and the characters themselves realize that.

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P7.2-3
Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time
Piccolo: “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible, but how about your movement?...Show me a little.”
Gotenks: “Is that alright? If I show you here, the house might break. I’ll do it on the ground.”
Piccolo wishes to test out the speed of Gotenks to see where he stands because he knows that speed doesn't correlate with strength; that still isn't suffice to suggest Gotenks could actually beat Boo. :elmo

I would like to finish up this theory with the quote below:

Chapter: 249 (DBZ 55), 7.4
Context: after Vegeta dodges Kui's attack
Kui: Wh…when did you…?!”
Vegeta: “When my battle power rises, it means that my speed raises too.”
The argument here is that speed rises as Chi increases. But it doesn't necessarily mean it rises at the same amount, all the time, for every character. There are different factors that come into play, such as, species, Chi control, battle power & potential, et cetera. Just because a particular battle power of 120,000 is 33% higher than one of 90,000 doesn't mean it's an instant victory for the higher battle power. Frieza versus Goku Ssj comes to mind.

Anyways, hopefully you enjoyed the read!!
:CC
 

Uchiha

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I agree with the notion that it isn't a linear increase but there is definitely a correlation between speed and ち. It's most likely different for every character as you say and isn't just a straight up multiplier. Or else Beerus' speed makes nose sense. Gotenks' too, depending on how you scale things.
 

Princesssugartits

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Logically it makes sense- if all you do is spar and hit harder it's not gonna make you as fast as the guy who specfically trains for speed. I agree
 

Papasmurf

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That's obvious enough for anyone who read the Freeza arc
 

kriss-

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Some people make the silly assumption that because a fighter has higher or great speed, it also means their strong. I felt compelled in needing to take that absurd notion and debunk it.
 

Clearin

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I made a similar thread a while ago, so you can check it out if you want more quotes that prove this.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8548151/1/#new
 

kriss-

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Clearin said:
I made a similar thread a while ago, so you can check it out if you want more quotes that prove this.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8548151/1/#new
You know Gotenks SSj Pre-RoSaT falls into this category?
:alex
 

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