SS3 Goku (EoZ) vs. SS Gogeta (Boo arc)

[Six Trails]

Who wins? I think Goku reasonably surpassed SS Gotenks, but how would he fare against SS Gogeta?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm still unsure of how Gogeta compares to Gokhan and if he can go SSJ3, but even the lowest i'd put Gogeta is still enough to warrant the fusion a win, specially with SSJ3 draining Goku's power.

How do you think Gogeta compares to Gokhan, Mikey? And do you think Gogeta could turn SSJ3?

 

[Six Trails]

Potara or Metamoran Gokhan? And yes, I do think Gogeta can turn SS3. If Gotenks can when neither of his components can go SS3, then I think Gogeta definitely should be able to.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I think Goku can reasonably win here if his base form has reached up to around the level of Pure Boo by now.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Potara or Metamoran Gokhan? And yes, I do think Gogeta can turn SS3. If Gotenks can when neither of his components can go SS3, then I think Gogeta definitely should be able to.

Metamorian Gokhan. Potara is for sure above Gogeta and probably even Vegerot.

Gotenks needed to train in order to reach SSJ3, initially he couldn't even go SSJ. Makes me doubt Metamorian fusions can transform after merged.

 

[Six Trails]

Potara or Metamoran Gokhan? And yes, I do think Gogeta can turn SS3. If Gotenks can when neither of his components can go SS3, then I think Gogeta definitely should be able to.

Metamorian Gokhan. Potara is for sure above Gogeta and probably even Vegerot.

Gotenks needed to train in order to reach SSJ3, initially he couldn't even go SSJ. Makes me doubt Metamorian fusions can transform after merged.

Nothing necessarily suggests that Gotenks had to train to transform. He only didn't transform during his debut because he thought his base form was strong enough to beat Boo. It just seems weird that fusing would make you forget how to transform...

I think Metamoran Gokhan is for sure above Gogeta. By how much I'm not sure but by a good amount at least.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Potara or Metamoran Gokhan? And yes, I do think Gogeta can turn SS3. If Gotenks can when neither of his components can go SS3, then I think Gogeta definitely should be able to.

Metamorian Gokhan. Potara is for sure above Gogeta and probably even Vegerot.

Gotenks needed to train in order to reach SSJ3, initially he couldn't even go SSJ. Makes me doubt Metamorian fusions can transform after merged.

Nothing necessarily suggests that Gotenks had to train to transform. He only didn't transform during his debut because he thought his base form was strong enough to beat Boo. It just seems weird that fusing would make you forget how to transform...

I think Metamoran Gokhan is for sure above Gogeta. By how much I'm not sure but by a good amount at least.

But wouldn't Gotenks have tried transforming after Boo started beating the tar out of him?

Unless this means SSj Gotenks pre was < Fat Boo all along dawg just kidding don't hurt me

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Nothing necessarily suggests that Gotenks had to train to transform. He only didn't transform during his debut because he thought his base form was strong enough to beat Boo. It just seems weird that fusing would make you forget how to transform...

I think Metamoran Gokhan is for sure above Gogeta. By how much I'm not sure but by a good amount at least.

Piccolo told Gotenks to defuse and try again as SSJs, and Gotenks didn't transform while fighting Boo. It seems weird that Gotenks didn't transform while getting his ass beaten.

I think Metamorian Gokhan indeed is above Gogeta. Goku's description of fusion seems to imply suppression doesn't affect the outcome:
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Goku: “ other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of.”
The fusion is far stronger than anything the fusers could have.

 

[SSJ2]

He made the point that people had to be similar in power, so in that instance he's likely referring to two people fusing who are true equals, no suppression involved.

 

[Flame]

Goku should come out on top.

 

[ahill1]

I am entertaining more the thought of Goku SSJ3 (end of Z) being hardly any different compared to his SSJ3 self from Z... which finds validity in statements made both by the author and the guidebook that Goku would be about his limits when achieving SSJ3, which also works well with him being excited to fight against someone expected by him to be about as strong as kid Boo, which to me seems a bit forced if he had access to a transformation that would make him many times stronger than kid Boo level of power, and such also finds validity into the multiple statements of ssj3 being his limit (Voice_of_Reason from neoseeker have displayed them here http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2222225-ive-got-goku-majin-vegeta-significantly-more-powerful-than-kid-gohan/4.htm).

But yeah, it's true that "limits" are many times a throaway line and that there're strong arguments for Goku's base being way stronger than what it was in the Boo saga, to the point that he'd match an opponent who was later stated to have met his estimations in base only, and such points were better explained by Spiral-Force here on this thread (http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2221406-spiral-force-vs-voice_of_reason-uub-eoz-base-goku-eoz-stronger-than-mr-buu/2.htm), but I have found a nice way to reconcile both point of views... in which case Goku SSJ3 has kind of reached his limits at the end of the battle against Boo and that, therefore, only his base form would get stronger , to the point it'd equal himself at his utmost capability (SSJ3)... and we see that end of Z Goku was almost there, only a few steps behind...

... this theory in my opinion finds validity on Elder Kaioshin bringing Gohan to way past his limits and Gohan managing to access that all in a form that pretty much resembles his base form, that is, accessing all of his potential -- and some more -- without the need to transform... so from my point of view, since Goku kind of reached his limit on ssj3, his training now would be about bringing his base form to such level, there in accessing all of his potential in a non-strainful form, pretty much like Gohan did after the ritual, which also fits nicely with the points of Goku's base being implied to be pretty strong, and with the points of Goku SSJ3 in the Boo saga being already more or less as far as he could go, and also fits in with him stating to Boo be reincarnated as a good person and that therefore he'd train and improve himself to fight him again in the future... which would make sense if he solely brought his strength to a form that wasn't detrimental in stamina, considering stamina was the main factor of Goku's loss in the fight... now that he has fixed the stamina problems (bringing his ssj3 strength to his base form... almost, since hjs base form is still laying a bit behind apparently), he can now have a fair and exciting match against a kid Boo tier opponent, in which the stamina problem won't come into play anymore.

So, I think that's a healthy outlook on the whole thing, in which both sides (the ones that defends Goku not getting much stronger post Boo saga and the ones who defend base Goku being up there with Boo) would be happy, and also works well with someone expressed to go beyond his limits making use of just his 'base' form to fight... so when a Saiyajin goes as far as he could go with a transformation, the training would be about bringing the less strainful base form to such level and just then he'd be "as far as he could go" (a la Ultimate Gohan), in which case Goku SSJ3 would fall short against Gogeta SSJ, who should be considerably stronger than Gotenks SSJ...

What do you guys think?

 

[Southern Gothic]

Assuming some hax on Base Saiyans in Boo Saga, I'd give this to Galu.

 

[Pyro]

Goku got many times stronger training to eventually fight "Majin Boo" (Oob) again, but even so, I give him reduced transformation boosts to make up for it, so he ends up getting beat handily.

Spoiler

SSJ2 Goku (Boo): 25
Good Boooooo: 30
Skinny Boo: 50
Base Goku (EOZ): 70
Fat Boo: 80
Kid Boo: 95
SSJ3 Goku (Boo): 100
SSJ Goku (EOZ): 140
SSJ Gotenks (pre): 150
Base Gotenks (post): 200
SSJ2 Goku (EOZ): 280
Base Gogeta: 400~
SSJ Gotenks (post): 400
SSJ3 Goku (EOZ): 560
SSJ Gogeta: 800~
SSJ2 Gotenks: 800
SSJ3 Gotenks: 1,600

 

[Captain Cadaver]

From the statements given, it seemed to be implied that Gohan Boo > SS3 Gogeta > Gotenks Boo when not taking into account the rival boost. That said, I don't see the rival boost being any more drastic than placing SS2 Gogeta on the level of his SS3 self without the boost. That said, I'd say his SSJ form would end up being only slightly above SS3 Gotenks. I'd say with Goku's implied gains and scaling, coupled with Ultimate Gohan >> Gohan's natural limits >>> Goku's natural limits would bring Goku nowhere near such a level, so Gogeta stomps.