Ssj4 Goku (Full Power SD Arc) runs a DBS Manga Gauntlet

[GT Solos]

WHERE do you think Ssj4 Goku stops at? EXPLAIN why do you think he stops at said character.

Quantlet:

1.) Rage Ssj2 Vegeta
2.) SsjG Goku (BoG)
3.) Golden Frieza (RoF) (use the Movie RoF Frieza as reference)
4.) Hit (U6 Arc)
5.) Goku Black (Pre Zenkais)
6.) Goku Black (Post Zenkais)
7.) Merged Zamasu (Normal)
8.) Merged Zamasu (Post Rage)
9.) Toppo (Full Power)
10.) Hit (Full Power ToP Arc)
11.) Kefla (ToP Arc)
12.) Ultimate Gohan (ToP Arc)
13.) Completed Blue Goku (ToP Arc)
14.) Completed Blue Vegeta (ToP Arc)
15.) Ultra Instinct Sign Goku
16.) Beerus
17.) Jiren (Full Power)
18.) Ultra Instinct Complete Goku
19.) Whis.
20.) Grand Priest.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Depends how you believe on Base Goku God theory where I'm still haven't come into the conclusion yet. But when we watched how fake Vegeta fought against SSjin3 Gotenks (who is probably equal to his Boo arc counterpart) then it's safe to assume that the Base Saiyans are around top tier of Boo arc IMO.

With how SBV2 is likely weaker than SSjin3 Vegito (Boo arc) who is at least slightly weaker than SSjin4 Goku (Baby Arc) and we know that SSjin2 Rageta is > SSjin3 Vegito (BoG) so I gotta say that he stops at Golden Frieza or SSG Goku himself.

 

[GT Solos]

Depends how you believe on Base Goku God theory where I'm still haven't come into the conclusion yet. But when we watched how fake Vegeta fought against SSjin3 Gotenks (who is probably equal to his Boo arc counterpart) then it's safe to assume that the Base Saiyans are around top tier of Boo arc IMO.

Bud, you mixed the Anime with the Manga. This post is asking about the latter, which, I'm sure, will lead to change your choices, unless you believe Manga = Anime.

With how SBV2 is likely weaker than SSjin3 Vegito (Boo arc) who is at least slightly weaker than SSjin4 Goku (Baby Arc) and we know that SSjin2 Rageta is > SSjin3 Vegito (BoG) so I gotta say that he stops at Golden Frieza or SSG Goku himself.

This is Shadow Dragons Arc Full Power Ssj4 Goku, so this isn't Baby Arc. And just two questions I'm wondering:

1) Can you please tell me how did you come to the conclusion that Ssj2 Rage Vegeta > Ssj3 Vegetto (Buu Saga)?

2) From where did you get the idea that Ssj3 Vegetto is slightly weaker than Baby Arc Ssj4 Goku?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

1. Right, the manga doesn't have the base God theory so still I put the Base Goku and Vegeta around Super Vegito at least.

2. I don't think there's a difference between Goku from Baby arc to SD arc other than that his base and SSjin form but his SSjin4 remains the same strength hence he needed to surpass his limits with other Saiyans giving their power to him against Syn Shenron.

SSjin4 Goku (Vs Omega) > Syn Shenron > SSjin4 Goku (normal) ~ SSjin3 Vegito

As for why Rageta is stronger than Vegito, I remember that Goku stated the Potara would lose to Beerus no doubt but when Rageta fought Beerus, Goku was hoping Vegeta can pull it off. Now I'm not sure how I take this but I think Goku was just being optimistic on the situation.

As for how Vegito from Boo arc is slightly stronger or weaker than SSjin4 Goku from baby arc. There's a material where it says that Vegito's power is greater than SSjin4 (Goku from Baby arc) which doesn't contradict GT to me since SBV1 was said to surpass Super Vegito at best and there's a chance that it took a SSjin4 Goku to surpass or rival SSjin3 Vegito so this is my chain

SSjin3 Vegito ~ SSjin4 Goku > SBV2 > SBV1 > SSjin Vegito

 

[GT Solos]

1. Right, the manga doesn't have the base God theory so still I put the Base Goku and Vegeta around Super Vegito at least.

Why do you put them above Ssj Vegetto from the Buu Saga though?

2. I don't think there's a difference between Goku from Baby arc to SD arc other than that his base and SSjin form but his SSjin4 remains the same strength hence he needed to surpass his limits with other Saiyans giving their power to him against Syn Shenron.

SSjin4 Goku (Vs Omega) > Syn Shenron > SSjin4 Goku (normal) ~ SSjin3 Vegito

Two things I need to know here:

1) What makes you think he needed the other saiyans to surpass limits he couldn't surpass rather than just wants to get stronger?

2) How did you come to the conclusion tha Ssj4 Goku from the Baby Arc (AKA normal) is equivalent to Ssj3 Vegetto from the Buu Saga? I read the pragraph you wrote down. The guide that said Ssj Vegito is possibly above Ssj4 Goku without any specification, but aside from that interpretation, how do you say Ssj4 Goku from the Baby Arc is near Ssj3 Vegito from the Buu Saga if you think the guide isn't contradicted? I understand the Baby situation, but you just said the guide isn't contradicted. :shock:

As for why Rageta is stronger than Vegito, I remember that Goku stated the Potara would lose to Beerus no doubt but when Rageta fought Beerus, Goku was hoping Vegeta can pull it off. Now I'm not sure how I take this but I think Goku was just being optimistic on the situation.

SSjin3 Vegito ~ SSjin4 Goku > SBV2 > SBV1 > SSjin Vegito[

I'm sure no such thing was stated other than in the movie, unless I forgot. Can you show me a scan of Goku believing in Rage Vegeta to that extend? He just used instant transmission to earth to try and figure a way against Beerus, which he himself says he couldn't.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I didn't said above Vegito although again I'm basing my assumption fron the anime where base Fake Vegeta (who is as strong as real Vegeta) was tanking SS3 Gotenks easily so that puts the Base Saiyans above SSjin3 Gotenks at least. You might argue that how about the manga but since we don't have any evidence how strong the base Saiyans are compare to the Boo arc top tiers, I don't see where to put them other than around the top tiers of Boo arc after with This training.

1. SSjin4 is Goku's full limits hence he needed the other Saiyans to contribute their power to him in order to surpass his natural limits to beyond. I don't think Goku can get stronger after Baby arc except for his base/SSjin form but not his SSjin4 since it's not a multiplier but Goku's full power.

2. It came from DBGT Anime comic or something and Herms translated it here. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15533&start=600

"Merging With Vegeta!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

Now this is debatable. It depends on how you interpret it. Either you go with SSjin Vegito ~ SSjin4 Goku or SSjin3 Vegito ~ SSjin4 Goku. The former doesn't make any sense since Goku himself said that SBV1 is the strongest Ki he ever felt and we know that SSjin Vegito was the stronger Ki he ever felt before SBV1 came along. The latter makes sense since he doesn't know how strong SS3 Vegito so there's no problem to put Vegito full power around SS4 Goku.

I haven't read the manga of BoG so can't comment on that.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Beyond Limits SS4 Goku isn't a Universe Buster, so he gets stomped by anyone relevant to SSG tier. He'd be lucky to stack up to Post-God Base or SSJ Goku/Vegeta, considering durability and stamina feats such as Base Goku and True form Freeza taking hits from Jiren and still getting up should place them on Multi-Galaxy+ level.

Why do you put them above Ssj Vegetto from the Buu Saga though?

Base Goku fought well against Initial Hit in the U6 Arc, who wasn't far below 10% of his SSB level. Base Goku was also durable enough to take a strong hit from Jiren and still get up. If anything, SSJ Vegetto tier is lowballing.

1) What makes you think he needed the other saiyans to surpass limits he couldn't surpass rather than just wants to get stronger?

The GT Perfect Files state that SS4 draws a Saiyans' power to its utmost limits (ie. a potential unlock) and the only times where the form's power has shown to increase were by unconventional means such as Goku using his friends' Ki to utilise its full power against Baby and then surpass his limits against Yi Xing Long. Goku's feats in the Evil Dragon Arc suggesting his Base form was getting closer in power to his SS4 form rather than the gap remaining the same is also a very telling sign.

2) How did you come to the conclusion tha Ssj4 Goku from the Baby Arc (AKA normal) is equivalent to Ssj3 Vegetto from the Buu Saga?

Scaling alone would be enough to make that possible. Goku never states someone is the strongest Ki he'd sensed until Super Vegeta-Baby, despite confirming Rild as stronger than Boo, so it's clear he was also taking SSJ Vegetto into account. That said, SS3 Vegetto being on Initial SS4 Goku or Golden Oozaru Baby's level works via-scaling.