Strictly for the Gotenks enthusiasts

[kriss-]

A statement without sufficient evidence is an opinion and hardly a fact. Likewise, a predetermined expectation within a story is still burdened by the merits of actuality and confirmation -whether the expected event is true or not, remains to be seen until it is either realized or isn't, characters are most certainly fallible and everything else is burdened by subjectivity, especially if involves unconfirmed statements or non-contradicted, but neither confirmed, opinions. So the enthusiasts whom stray from this logical linguistic diagnosis are merely hopeful at best.

The author has informed us of the characters opinion, which are based on a false pretense and is made even less credible by his ideologies of believing that the younger generation of his time should be responsible for themselves and the security of the Earth. Therefore, he remains hopeful for something he expects to be true, but even his own narrative structure fails to tell us that his expectation was realized. Therefore it's entirely subjective and both arguments hold as much merit as the other in regards to the validity of their ideals. Speculative principals that are completely unnecessary do not make the statements any more or less true than they already are.

Summarily, the one dimensional perspective regarding Goku's statements about various Majin Boo's doesn't work within the larger context of the story, because other factors that structure the story are clearly still relevant. It's almost as if there is a certain prejudice against people who go against the common norm, which it in itself is fundamentally wrong based on the current ideologies of Akira Toriyama. His plot for Battle of Gods was completely based off his own interpretation of the story that he originally wrote, and he even went as far as to re-read the entire Manga. So logically, when Dragonball Super conforms to his opinions and adapts a script that he made, it's a given fact that the common trend was actually wrong because it goes against the ideas that were once relevant within the Manga and still are.

The idiosyncrasy of the enthusiasts has grown to a degree where they are actually in disbelief of anything that comes from Akira Toriyama -the reasons for such distrust and disrespect stem from the quality of Dragonball Super, which may be the quality of the story or the animation or even both, and their perspective regarding his mental condition and how he's forgetful and can no longer be trusted when he works on anything that is Dragonball related, seemingly so because their subjective interpretations do not coincide with what he is currently releasing. Their collective thoughts regarding what should and ought to be are not depicted in the new material, an example of this includes the characteristic traits and relevancy of the characters involved. We've established that people distrust Akira Toriyama because he's either a con-man -whose only in it for the money, doesn't know his story anymore and should therefore; have no authority over it any longer. In the end, this sounds like a massive insult to the author and a massive insult to Dragonball.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Nice write-up, man.

The series originally ended about 20 yrs ago, so I feel like his approach would be entirely different by now. A lot of stuff in Super is odd, like Piccolo having trouble against a guy that surpassed the Ginyu Force, Gohan being unable to use Super Saiyan despite mastering it. Just a lot of strange things. Most people just prefer to go by what's taken place in the original Manga from many yrs ago, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Victorious]

Sounds like a hapless complaint to try and discredit the multiple times Goku says that Gotenks will be stronger then himself. And this is before he goes in the RoSaT or learns SSJ3.

 

[Tapion]

According to tosh, Goku's statements are wrong because it's based on a false pretense.
A false pretense that only he knows, ever saw or read in the manga. It must be exclusive to his manga.

 

[kriss-]

I can't even bother responding to these two chumps above me, they don't have the intellectual capacity to comprehend what I was saying. At least Evil Vegeta had something to add to the discussion that didn't involve the classic Gotenks arguments and who is right, blah blah blah.

I'd prefer to have an actual discussion, and not have a thread turn into two gorillas throwing their poo at one another. If you seriously have nothing to add to the thread, than don't comment in it.

 

[Tapion]

The same can be said to you, tosh.

 

[Pyro]

Interesting thesis, though I wouldn't consider myself anything remotely close to a Gotenks "enthusiast" as I have no avid intent or fanboyish inclination towards the character. I find him rather rancid and a waste of time that could've gone to a better character, like Gohan or even Piccolo.

 

[Tapion]

Well, i agree. Gotenks is a character that looked badass at first and could've been a much better one, but Piccolo? Nah. Green man is the favorite character of many(me included) so i don't see how he is a waste of time.

 

[kriss-]

In a fictional work, a statement is true if the writer believes it is. A character saying something reflects the character's opinion, not necessarily the writer's. If it's a McGuffin, then it doesn't matter. Current Toriyama doesn't believe the arguments the fans have orchestrated, so they're clearly not true.

 

[Uchiha]

In a fictional work, a statement is true if the writer believes it is.

Not always. Shakespeare's work has been interpreted in many different ways and we have no idea what his true intentions are. Many series also let the audience interpret the series themselves. DB isn't only written by AT anyway, his editor had major input in the series' direction and characters.

A character saying something reflects the character's opinion, not necessarily the writer's.

The character doesn't exist, only the author exists, so yes what a character says usually does reflect the author's opinion.

Current Toriyama doesn't believe the arguments the fans have orchestrated, so they're clearly not true.

You're trying to make it sound like AT is arguing on your side. He hasn't even read the arguments fans have created and I doubt he really cares. AT only has shown to only have a small amount of input in Super. Just because AT says something doesn't make it end all. For example if AT said Goku had blue hair in the manga doesn't make it right. He could just be forgetting about the original story. And even if he isn't forgetting doesn't change the fact that he isn't right and that he can be wrong, even on his own story (Super is hardly his story even then).

 

[Victorious]

If Goku says Gotenks will be stronger then himself, he's our only source of information. So we should take his word for it if we want to make any sense of this fictional universe.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

@Tosh, you can't destroy ''Gotenkism''.

 

[kriss-]

Not always. Shakespeare's work has been interpreted in many different ways and we have no idea what his true intentions are. Many series also let the audience interpret the series themselves. DB isn't only written by AT anyway, his editor had major input in the series' direction and characters.

It could be theoretically possible that, that may be the true intention of Toriyama and his writer.

The character doesn't exist, only the author exists, so yes what a character says usually does reflect the author's opinion.

Fictional worlds have their own rules. A characters opinion is a reflection of that world, but it doesn't necessarily have to reflect the authors opinion.

It's like arguing that Vegeta calling himself the absolute stronger is a reflection of Toriyama's opinion... this obviously isn't true.

There is a fine line between a character and the author.

You're trying to make it sound like AT is arguing on your side. He hasn't even read the arguments fans have created and I doubt he really cares. AT only has shown to only have a small amount of input in Super. Just because AT says something doesn't make it end all. For example if AT said Goku had blue hair in the manga doesn't make it right. He could just be forgetting about the original story. And even if he isn't forgetting doesn't change the fact that he isn't right and that he can be wrong, even on his own story (Super is hardly his story even then).

If a script (Super) reflects what Toriyama wrote based off his own interpretation of the Manga (Battle of Gods) -and it coincides with my own opinion, than clearly it works against the general opinion of the fans. This doesn't mean Toriyama has read my personal interpretation, just that it so happens to agree with it.

@Tosh, you can't destroy ''Gotenkism''.

k