Super Fusion Battles

[xenos5]

Hitza (Hit + Frieza) vs Doppo (Dyspo + Toppo)

Gokhan (Goku + Gohan) vs Vegunks (Vegeta + Future Trunks)

Cauliba (Caulifla+Cabba) vs Frostgetta (Frost + Magetta), no poison needle.

Bonus: Cauliba gets access to SSJ2 despite Cabba not having it and Frostgetta gets the poison needle.

Setting: Barren Planet.

I think these are all pretty interesting matchups.

For this thread some basic assumptions are

1. the transformations of Gokhan and Vegunks are fused as well. So they have Ultimate Blue and Ikari Blue respectively.

2. Gokhan can't stack Kaioken onto Ultimate Blue like he can with regular blue.

3. Magetta's mental weakness is diminished quite a bit but still exists despite his mind being fused with Frost's. So while he can take basic insults well enough a strong enough insult at the right time can faze Frostgetta a bit.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

what a hard question....

1.Doppo
2.Vegunks
3.Cauliba

 

[xenos5]

what a hard question....

1.Doppo
2.Vegunks
3.Cauliba

Interesting. What's your reasoning for those picks?

I agree with Cauliba winning and I think Gokhan vs Vegunks could go either way but why do you think Doppo wins? Hitza is a fusion of two High Blue tier fighters (Hit and True Golden Frieza). Doppo is a fusion of a Low Blue tier fighter (Dyspo) and a Kaioken Blue Tier fighter (Toppo). So I thought it'd kinda even out power-wise (not that Hitza couldn't reach a higher level of power with improvement anyways) and it'd mainly be all about how they each utilize their techniques. Hit's already shown he's capable of dealing with Dyspo's speed so Hitza should be able to deal with Doppo's speed and might only have trouble with Doppo's grappling techniques since they'd be new to him. I'd think Doppo would have a lot more trouble with the combined arsenal of techniques of Hit and Frieza. Death Beam, Death Saucer, or just Hit's shockwave technique being fired off during a timeskip could end the fight very quickly for example.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

You are right.and BTW,is toppo unbalanced (Has more power than speed). Even ssj goku was able to ddoge some of his blows .

As for the rest,i picked Caulibla because Frost is very weak compared to Ssj vegeta (U6) and cabba was comparable to vegeta when they fought. and in the TOP arc Cabba powered up even further. Maggeta is very physically powerful but lacks speed which will also reflect on the potara fusion.Frostgetta will be much slower than Caulibla but his strength would be around his but with SSj2 caulibla wins without doubt.

Vegunks because i dont feel like Gohan is as strong as Goku and Vegeta (he is close but still) And trunks was very powerful in his Ikari form.his power increased even more so when he clashed his Galick gun With Merged Zamasu's holy wrath

 

[xenos5]

You are right.and BTW,is toppo unbalanced (Has more power than speed). Even ssj goku was able to ddoge some of his blows .

He did seem slower than SSB Goku while suppressed considering Goku was outpacing him in their clashes so he may be slower than SSBKK Goku when at full power but have durability/strength to make up for it (like how suppressed Toppo tanked SSB Goku's instant transmission kamehameha at point blank). Fusing with Dyspo could make up for his weakness in speed but Dyspo's overall power could weaken the fusion a bit more than if Toppo had fused with another SSBKK level fighter.

As for the rest,i picked Caulibla because Frost is very weak compared to Ssj vegeta (U6) and cabba was comparable to vegeta when they fought. and in the TOP arc Cabba powered up even further. Maggeta is very physically powerful but lacks speed which will also reflect on the potara fusion.Frostgetta will be much slower than Caulibla but his strength would be around his but with SSj2 caulibla wins without doubt.

That makes sense.

Vegunks because i dont feel like Gohan is as strong as Goku and Vegeta (he is close but still) And trunks was very powerful in his Ikari form.his power increased even more so when he clashed his Galick gun With Merged Zamasu's holy wrath

Interesting. I remember the narrator stating Gohan rivaled Goku's blue form in power in the next episode when a previous episode recap was being done. But it's understandable to think Gohan is slightly weaker.

They're all in the same general range (blue level) so Gokhan could still take it with strategy (Gohan's a smart fighter, Goku's a combat genius and they've got abilities like instant transmission and solar flare to utilize). But Vegunks has a slight range advantage in close quarters combat with his ki amped sword (he can't use that hope sword shit he used against fusion zamasu since there are no people on the barren planet to fuel it but he can still use his regular sword or the version where he replaced the broken bits with his own ki). It could very well end up being a tie, so it's definitely a close fight.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

I don't think that IT is all that as people think it is.Sure it has helped goku countless of times but if the opponent is aware of that move it wont help him much (besides dodge a ki blasts and suck) hence he didnt use it against Majin Vegeta

As for the Vegunks scenario i don't think that the sword will help much.It may be non-canon but in the manga goku was able to block trunks's sword attack with a finger even thuogh trunks was stated by whis to be slightly stronger than goku. And trunks aint a stupid fighter (as opposed to Z).He used USSJ too fool Blue vegeta and later used his Sword as a decoy to attack Black

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Are these Potara or Metamoran? That makes quite the difference.

 

[Keedounan]

Hitza (Hit + Frieza) vs Doppo (Dyspo + Toppo)

Hitza wins imo. Besides incredible strength (Toppo) and speed (Dyspo), both of them didn't show much besides that. On the other hand, Hit and Freeza, in addition to being at least as powerful as Goku Blue (sans Kaioken), they have access to techniques that can give them a a good advantage (such as Hit's Tokitobashi and Freeza's limited Telekinesis).

Gokhan (Goku + Gohan) vs Vegunks (Vegeta + Future Trunks)

That would make them pretty close in terms of power, with the Ikari's and SSJB's sheer power combined for Vegunks, and the unlocked potential of the SSJB of Goku and Gohan fused ! However, I'd still give it to Gokhan, since it has access to techniques like Instant Transmission, while most of Vegeta's and Trunks' techniques are generic blasts.

Cauliba (Caulifla+Cabba) vs Frostgetta (Frost + Magetta), no poison needle.

Cauliba has power advantage and can exploit Frostgetta's weakness. And has Cabba knows about the poison needle, Frostgetta will get blitzed before he even gets the chance to use it, especially with the SSJ2.

 

[xenos5]

Are these Potara or Metamoran? That makes quite the difference.

I guess i'll say they're all Potara and there's no fusion time limit for this thread.

 

[Void]

Doppo wins the first round with mid-difficulty.

Vegunks wins the second by virtue of Salty Trunks being > Gohan

I'm hesitant to pick a winner for the third, but I'll go with Frostgetta to go against everyone else.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I guess i'll say they're all Potara and there's no fusion time limit for this thread.

In that case...

Match 1: Doppo stomps. Toppo's raw strength is already roughly that of Hit and Freeza's combined, and with Dyspo's speed, he'd be able to beat Hitza before his level adaption kicks in.

Match 2: The anime seems to present SSB Goku (Power up VS Merged Zamasu) >>> SSB Goku (3rd match against Black) > SSJ Rage Trunks and seems to have Ultimate Gohan roughly equal to current SSB Goku. Gokhan wins with mid of high-diff, especially considering Ultimate Blue should be a lot less taxing on his stamina than Ikari Blue.

Match 3: Frost is capable of making Hit need to get serious to block his punch, which should be more than both Caulifla and Cabba together should logically be capable of. Frostgetta stomps.

 

[xenos5]

Match 1: Doppo stomps. Toppo's raw strength is already roughly that of Hit and Freeza's combined, and with Dyspo's speed, he'd be able to beat Hitza before his level adaption kicks in.

SSBKK Goku is not "roughly that of Hit and Freeza's combined". Hit is stronger than Frieza IMO (Hit took a full power SSB Kamehameha and could get up and fly all the way back to universe 6 shortly afterwards whereas Frieza took a full power SSB Punch and was knocked out completely) and he adapted to SSBKKx10 in the past so just adapting to SSBKK level strength should take even less time. And that's being generous and assuming Toppo would've perfectly matched SSBKK Goku. They didn't actually get to fighting so all we know is Full Power Toppo > SSB. He could very well be inbetween Blue and Kaioken Blue.

More importantly one person can't carry an entire fusion. Dyspo's own strength factors in (high SSG to low SSB level) so it's not the same as if two Kaioken Blue level fighters fused. Low Blue level + Kaioken Blue level should even out to Double Blue level or a little bit higher in a fusion I believe. Hitza will also be Double Blue level.

Match 3: Frost is capable of making Hit need to get serious to block his punch, which should be more than both Caulifla and Cabba together should logically be capable of. Frostgetta stomps.

What are you talking about? Hit casually dodged all of Frost's tail strikes and grabbed his tail to end it onehanded. He didn't need to block a punch from Frost. Hit's statement that he got "serious" was just his way of saying Frost had gotten stronger. The problem is Frost doesn't have any actual feats yet to show how much stronger he got yet. He certainly he isn't blue level. Even Frieza isn't blue level without his golden form so there's no way Frost is.

So until shown otherwise the most we can assume is that Frost is just somewhat above his previous level of power. Maybe CSSJ level rather than clearly below CSSJ level like he used to be. I think we need to just see more feats to know his current level.

 

[xenos5]

Match 1: Doppo stomps. Toppo's raw strength is already roughly that of Hit and Freeza's combined, and with Dyspo's speed, he'd be able to beat Hitza before his level adaption kicks in.

SSBKK Goku is not "roughly that of Hit and Freeza's combined". Hit is stronger than Frieza IMO (Hit took a full power SSB Kamehameha and could get up and fly all the way back to universe 6 shortly afterwards whereas Frieza took a full power SSB Punch and was knocked out completely) and he adapted to SSBKKx10 in the past so just adapting to SSBKK level strength should take even less time. And that's being generous and assuming Toppo would've perfectly matched SSBKK Goku. They didn't actually get to fighting so all we know is Full Power Toppo > SSB. He could very well be inbetween Blue and Kaioken Blue.

More importantly one person can't carry an entire fusion. Dyspo's own strength factors in (high SSG to low SSB level) so it's not the same as if two Kaioken Blue level fighters fused. Low Blue level + Kaioken Blue level should even out to Double Blue level or a little bit higher in a fusion I believe. Hitza will also be Double Blue level.

Match 3: Frost is capable of making Hit need to get serious to block his punch, which should be more than both Caulifla and Cabba together should logically be capable of. Frostgetta stomps.

What are you talking about? Hit casually dodged all of Frost's tail strikes and grabbed his tail to end it onehanded. He didn't need to block a punch from Frost. Hit's statement that he got "serious" was just his way of saying Frost had gotten stronger. The problem is Frost doesn't have any actual feats yet to show how much stronger he got yet. He certainly he isn't blue level. Even Frieza isn't blue level without his golden form so there's no way Frost is.

So until shown otherwise the most we can assume is that Frost is just somewhat above his previous level of power. Maybe CSSJ level rather than clearly below CSSJ level like he used to be. I think we need to just see more feats to know his current level.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

SSBKK Goku is not "roughly that of Hit and Freeza's combined". Hit is stronger than Frieza IMO (Hit took a full power SSB Kamehameha and could get up and fly all the way back to universe 6 shortly afterwards whereas Frieza took a full power SSB Punch and was knocked out completely) and he adapted to SSBKKx10 in the past so just adapting to SSBKK level strength should take even less time. And that's being generous and assuming Toppo would've perfectly matched SSBKK Goku. They didn't actually get to fighting so all we know is Full Power Toppo > SSB. He could very well be inbetween Blue and Kaioken Blue.

More importantly one person can't carry an entire fusion. Dyspo's own strength factors in (high SSG to low SSB level) so it's not the same as if two Kaioken Blue level fighters fused. Low Blue level + Kaioken Blue level should even out to Double Blue level or a little bit higher in a fusion I believe. Hitza will also be Double Blue level.

Hit's rematch shows that he's still not far above SSB Goku like Toppo is. Toppo also stated he was equal to Kaioken Blue Goku and was never contradicted.
I doubt Hitza would be able to adapt in time. It took him a while to catch up to Dyspo's speed, which should be leagues above KKx10 Blue Goku's if even Hakaishin can lose sight of him.

What are you talking about? Hit casually dodged all of Frost's tail strikes and grabbed his tail to end it onehanded. He didn't need to block a punch from Frost. Hit's statement that he got "serious" was just his way of saying Frost had gotten stronger. The problem is Frost doesn't have any actual feats yet to show how much stronger he got yet. He certainly he isn't blue level. Even Frieza isn't blue level without his golden form so there's no way Frost is.
So until shown otherwise the most we can assume is that Frost is just somewhat above his previous level of power. Maybe CSSJ level rather than clearly below CSSJ level like he used to be. I think we need to just see more feats to know his current level.

Whilst I can agree for the most part, I doubt Hit would've phrased it in such a way if there wasn't some partial truth to it. He ought to have least been slightly serious to warrant such, at least moreso than his casual nature against ~10% SSB Vegeta.

 

[xenos5]

Hit's rematch shows that he's still not far above SSB Goku like Toppo is. Toppo also stated he was equal to Kaioken Blue Goku and was never contradicted.

Hit took a full power kamehameha that drained Goku out of blue and still had enough energy afterwards to fly all the way back to his universe. Toppo took a very powerful kamehameha from Blue Goku at point blank but that kamehameha didn't drain him out of blue.

I don't remember Toppo making a statement saying he was equal to kaioken blue. I just remember him getting angry about his uniform getting damaged and telling Goku that if he has trouble with him there's no way he'd beat Jiren.

I doubt Hitza would be able to adapt in time. It took him a while to catch up to Dyspo's speed, which should be leagues above KKx10 Blue Goku's if even Hakaishin can lose sight of him.

He already adapted to Dyspo's speed, so adapting to it plus Toppo's speed added onto it (while having Freeza's speed added onto his) shouldn't be much of an issue. And Hit's endurance is to the level he could take a barrage of blows from SSBKKx10 Goku before he improved and used the double timeskip/time freeze on him. So he can take a good amount of attacks while improving if need be.

And I don't think Dyspo is faster than a full power god of destruction. Champa likely couldn't see it due to being suppressed.

Whilst I can agree for the most part, I doubt Hit would've phrased it in such a way if there wasn't some partial truth to it. He ought to have least been slightly serious to warrant such, at least moreso than his casual nature against ~10% SSB Vegeta.

You're confusing the anime and the manga. There is no such 10% SSB statement in the anime. And the anime is where the serious statement is made.

He used timeskip against Vegeta but didn't against Frost. If he doesn't even need to use timeskip than he's not being pressured as much I would think.

My main position though is that Frost's level of power will probably be established more definitively next episode. The way the preview shows he's using Magetta as a part of a plan makes me think he needs Magetta's raw power and is weaker than him but we'll have to see.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Hit took a full power kamehameha that drained Goku out of blue and still had enough energy afterwards to fly all the way back to his universe. Toppo took a very powerful kamehameha from Blue Goku at point blank but that kamehameha didn't drain him out of blue.

I don't remember Toppo making a statement saying he was equal to kaioken blue. I just remember him getting angry about his uniform getting damaged and telling Goku that if he has trouble with him there's no way he'd beat Jiren.

After fighting Goku, he stated that if Goku's full power was only equal to him, he wouldn't stand a chance against Jiren. I highly doubt he'd bother making such a comparison if he wasn't at least within rivalling range of Kaioken Blue Goku.

[qupte]He already adapted to Dyspo's speed, so adapting to it plus Toppo's speed added onto it (while having Freeza's speed added onto his) shouldn't be much of an issue. And Hit's endurance is to the level he could take a barrage of blows from SSBKKx10 Goku before he improved and used the double timeskip/time freeze on him. So he can take a good amount of attacks while improving if need be.[/quote]That was when his opponent's raw power was inferior to his own and Dyspo got overconfident by gloating about his abilities. Such wouldn't happen in a fusion rematch.

[qupte]And I don't think Dyspo is faster than a full power god of destruction. Champa likely couldn't see it due to being suppressed.[/quote]Being suppressed shouldn't alter Champa's reactions, especially not when Vados nobody below the angels were suggested to be capable of tracking Dyspo.

You're confusing the anime and the manga. There is no such 10% SSB statement in the anime. And the anime is where the serious statement is made.
He used timeskip against Vegeta but didn't against Frost. If he doesn't even need to use timeskip than he's not being pressured as much I would think.

Using the manga's explanation, especially now that it's been confirmed SSB isn't the best for stamina control, is the only logical route seeing as how Base Goku's performance against Hit is equally impressive in both mediums.

 

[xenos5]

After fighting Goku, he stated that if Goku's full power was only equal to him, he wouldn't stand a chance against Jiren. I highly doubt he'd bother making such a comparison if he wasn't at least within rivalling range of Kaioken Blue Goku.

Goku had not yet powered up to his full power in Kaioken Blue so Toppo never saw it. Both him and Toppo were in the middle of powering up when they were interrupted.

That was when his opponent's raw power was inferior to his own and Dyspo got overconfident by gloating about his abilities. Such wouldn't happen in a fusion rematch.

Hit figured out Dyspo's abilities on his own (discerned that Dyspo boosted himself massively in short bursts and that he uses extremely enhanced hearing to listen for muscle vibrations). Dyspo only laid out the specifics of how much he got boosted by "thousands of times over" and knowing that doesn't really make a difference. Hit also already knows now so he doesn't need to be find out again after fusing with Frieza.

Hit's own speed also improved massively from that fight. Faking out Dyspo with a fake timeskip and hitting him with a punch to the gut afterwards could not have been down with prediction alone. Hit got in close and only then started positioning his fist to strike Dyspo. To me it looked like Hit outsped Dyspo or at least was in Dyspo's ballpark of speed enough from improvement that prediction could work when it wouldn't otherwise. He reacted to Dyspo's burst speed at point blank range, that much is for certain. When Goku surprised Dyspo by predicting him and turning blue at the last second (which also should've been faster than normal blue since he was maximizing its speed and power in a burst as Whis stated) Dyspo was still able to dodge but he couldn't do that with Hit.

Being suppressed shouldn't alter Champa's reactions, especially not when Vados nobody below the angels were suggested to be capable of tracking Dyspo.

How much you amp yourself with ki affects every stat you have in Dragonball. Including reaction speed. Suppressed angels are above suppressed gods of destruction but that doesn't mean a full power god of destruction can't react to something a suppressed angel can.

Using the manga's explanation, especially now that it's been confirmed SSB isn't the best for stamina control, is the only logical route seeing as how Base Goku's performance against Hit is equally impressive in both mediums.

No, not really. The anime has stamina drain for SSB but has not shown ANY power drain. Goku and Vegeta have used it multiple times in single fights without it being ANY weaker upon second or third uses. The manga makes it out like Vegeta using SSB to show it off to Cabba for a few seconds took away 90% of his power which flat out doesn't work at all in the anime with how SSB has been shown to not be any weaker after going back into it

Hit just held back against Base Goku since killing wasn't allowed in the tournament. Even before improving without using timeskip because Goku's prediction had rendered it temporarily ineffective Hit was able to dodge and block blows from Full Power SSB Goku in a short clash. He was getting pushed back but not straight up blitzed.