Super Saiyan sick Goku

[ahill1]

I already made more than one topic with this subject, but I'm still on the fence about it.

How strong is him? Stronger than his Yardrat self? Frankly speaking, there're arguments for him being really strong, like > his Yardrat self, as there are points for him not being that strong.

So, discuss.

 

[Tapion]

Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P7.3
Context: seeing Super Saiyan Goku
Yamcha: “Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…”

Yamcha, Tenshinhan and co. all sense Goku's power level as a Super Saiyan once he comes back from Yardrat.

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P6.2-4
Context: as Goku fights No.19
Tenshinhan: ”In-incredible…What strength…S-so that’s a Super Saiyan…He’s in a completely different dimension than we are…Too different…”
Piccolo: “…I wonder…”

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P7.4
Tenshinhan: “There’s no need to worry. Goku is outrageously strong. This ‘Super Saiyan’ thing is incredible…! These guys talk big, but they’re helpless.”

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P8.4-5, P9.
Piccolo: “Have you noticed too, Gohan?...”
Gohan: “Y-yes…”
Piccolo: “Son Goku is rushing the match for some reason…He’s already putting out close to his full power…But even so, what’s with that miserable condition of his?...”
Tenshinhan: “Th-that miserable condition…!? What are you talking about? Goku’s overwhelmingly pushing him back…!”

Here it is established thrice by Tenshinhan that Sick Super Saiyan Goku has an incredible power. If it was lower than what they sensed before, they wouldn't ve commented that.

Therefore;

Sick Goku > Yardrat Goku

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Wrong section.

Anyway, pretty much was the above said.

 

[ahill1]

Well, yeah, that's one of the points in favor of sick Super Saiyajin Goku being really strong, but look at the way Tenshinhan referred to the SSJ when Goku turn into one:

Tenshinhan: Th-that's some amazing chi...!! So this is Goku as a Super Saiyan...!!

Tenshinhan: Astounding...!!... What power... I never knew what being a Super Saiyan meant... It's as if he's in a different dimmension from us...

That implies Tenshinhan is acting as the first time he's seeing a Super Saiyajin. He even said it's as if it is from a different dimension, like, didn't he know it already when he saw it three years ago?

Besides, reactions aren't always that reliable as to determine who is stronger. Kuririn and the other humans shat their pants at Nappa's "power up" and yet didn't seem that scared by Vegeta for some reason. Likewise, Goku's 60,000ish power made Kuririn doubt that's Goku, yet Vegeta's nearly 500k power warranted no more from Kuririn than "He seems to have broken another ceiling of power". Kaioshin was also no more than a bit surprised at SSJ2 Gohan's power, yet base Vegeta completely flabbergasted him, warranting a "I never thought they'd be this strong" comment.

How about this? Vegeta claims that #19 post absorptions isn't as bad as the rumors made out, meaning he isn't that stronger than Trunks (Mecha saga). Gero implies that #19 post > sick Goku by saying changing "like that" (like Goku) wouldn't make Vegeta a match for them Androids. So it means sick Goku is weaker than someone (#19 post) who isn't leaps and bounds ahead of 'killing Freeza' Trunks.

 

[ahill1]

Oops, that'd fit better in the Discussion section... sorry, guys.

 

[Tapion]

That's the first time he is seeing a Super Saiyan UP CLOSE. Goku was standing hundreds of yards away from him when he came back from Yardrat.

These reactions are not comparable to Tenshinhan's.

And Vegeta's comment doesn't have to mean "they aren't much stronger than Trunks" at all. That's just an interpretation. Trunks told them the androids were capable of destroying everyone easily. 'Everyone' included Super Saiyan Goku, Piccolo, and even him. It turned out they weren't capable of doing that at all, so that's why Vegeta said they weren't as bad as the rumors made out. 19 couldn't do shit against him, whereas 20 was effortlessly wrecked by a not-even-serious Piccolo. It's not what they would expect from guys who were said to be able to beat everyone easily, that's why he said that.

 

[ahill1]

If anyone can move it to the Discussion topic, I'd be pleased.

That's the first time he is seeing a Super Saiyan UP CLOSE. Goku was standing hundreds of yards away from him when he came back from Yardrat.

That really shouldn't make much difference. He wasn't that far off from Yardrat Goku in the first time, so it should barely make a difference. Anyway, aren't you giving an explanation as to why he reacted differently?

These reactions are not comparable to Tenshinhan's.

Why?

Trunks told them the androids were capable of destroying everyone easily. 'Everyone' included Super Saiyan Goku, Piccolo, and even him. It turned out

Not Super Saiyajin Goku, because he died from the heart virus. Besides, Vegeta and company don't know how strong were them when killed, he only knew about future Trunks' strength, so the wiser would be him comparing the androids' strength with Trunks'.

That's all that Trunks told them about the androids:

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P2.3
Trunks: “3 years from this current era, on May 12th around 10:00 AM, a terrifying pair will appear on an island 9 kilometers to the southwest of South City…Monsters with tremendous power unlike anything in this world…”

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4
Goku: “For you, a Super Saiyan who instantly defeated Freeza and co., to call them monsters is really something…
Trunks “Yes…I’ve stood against them, but unfortunately…In any case, I’m up against two of them…Even fighting one-on-one, I could barely manage to escape…”

Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P9.4
Trunks: “Knowing your strength, Goku, I have a little hope.”

All these quotes imply is that the androids were expected to be considerably above Trunks, not to say there's not even a mention of them Z warriors being killed easily, which would not be that relevant anyway. So if Vegeta said #19 post isn't as bad as the rumors, it implies he's not >>>Trunks, at best >>Trunks, but more like > imo.If Super Saiyajin sick Goku is implied to be < 19 post, then he isn't a monster compared to Mecha saga powers either.