The Future Vegeta SSJ Debacle

[Power Level Guy]

So if you make Vegeta a SSJ you run into many numerical issues. This will be a thread where we can weed out the worst options and analyze the best option. The goal is to create the best narrative and create a story worthy of AT. The Future Saga is largely unknown, but if we are going to do something with it, we should make it fun and exciting.

Vegeta having SSJ is more exciting than him not having it, so we should do that. But the issue becomes with Gohan.

Gohan > Vegeta is the only thing that makes sense. The guides say Vegeta = Yardrat Goku, which shows their incompetence for the thousandth time. Since it makes zero sense for Gohan to attack the Androids while he's weaker than Vegeta who was killed by their hand.

So the issue begins with Mecha Freeza Arc Vegeta. How strong is he? Has he caught up to Namek Saga Goku? Has he surpassed him?

I think we are limited to Future Vegeta being somewhere from Namek Goku to Mecha Freeza. There's no point in making him any stronger than that. So as with anything, we can't just head into the saga without prepping in the prior sagas.

I think our best bet is either Future Vegeta losing some power and gaining SSJ or Future Vegeta matching Goku's power on Namek in the Mecha Freeza Arc and not gaining any more power after that.

 

[SSJ2]

It's contrary to what I've thought in the past, but maybe Vegeta only just got to Namek Goku's level by then. Vegeta had no confidence in the Mecha Freeza arc. Obviously he knew Goku had Super Saiyan, but Vegeta wasn't acting like his usual arrogant self there. I think it could make sense for him to only have reached Namek Goku level as he expected Goku to have gotten stronger in his time at Yardrat - hence the lack of arrogance.

 

[SIAD]

Future Vegeta got SSJ in the Manga?

 

[Power Level Guy]

It's contrary to what I've thought in the past, but maybe Vegeta only just got to Namek Goku's level by then. Vegeta had no confidence in the Mecha Freeza arc. Obviously he knew Goku had Super Saiyan, but Vegeta wasn't acting like his usual arrogant self there. I think it could make sense for him to only have reached Namek Goku level as he expected Goku to have gotten stronger in his time at Yardrat - hence the lack of arrogance.

I mean, he doesn't have Super Saiyan. That would explain everything. It seems like Base Trunks > Vegeta as well. But I always envisioned him within striking distance to Trunks, not one shot distance. What numbers do you have for the 3 Base Saiyans?

Future Vegeta got SSJ in the Manga?

No.

 

[SSJ2]

I dunno man, look at how Trunks is perceived by the group. I think he blows Vegeta out of the water.

Namek Goku: 6
-SSJ: 300

Mecha Freeza Vegeta: 6.5

Mecha Freeza: 310

Trunks: 9
-SSJ: 450

Yardrat Goku: 10
-SSJ: 500

 

[Power Level Guy]

I dunno man, look at how Trunks is perceived by the group. I think he blows Vegeta out of the water.

Namek Goku: 6
-SSJ: 300

Mecha Freeza Vegeta: 6.5

Mecha Freeza: 310

Trunks: 9
-SSJ: 450

Yardrat Goku: 10
-SSJ: 500

Yeah, that works good. How strong is Future 17 and Future 18 though? And how strong is Future SSJ Vegeta?

 

[SSJ2]

Future 17/18 should be around Android arc Vegeta level right?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Future 17/18 should be around Android arc Vegeta level right?

Yes, but I'm talking about Initial Future 17/SSJ Gohan 2 Arms/ SSJ Vegeta is the issue. What's the gap you have between the three?

 

[SSJ2]

Let me think about it. I’ll get back to you tomorrow.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If you think about it, Gohan should be >> Vegeta, not just >. The OVA implies he fought the androids several times. Unless the other fights consisted of him being delusional or the androids catching him.

 

[Power Level Guy]

If you think about it, Gohan should be >> Vegeta, not just >. The OVA implies he fought the androids several times. Unless the other fights consisted of him being delusional or the androids catching him.

Yeah, I'm fine with that. Not sure if I'd take the OVA's interpretation here on how things went though.

Gohan 450
Vegeta 375

That should cover it.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta was shown in base in toyotoros manga

 

[SSJ2]

Namek Goku: 6
-SSJ: 300

Mecha Freeza Vegeta: 6.5

Mecha Freeza: 310

Trunks: 9
-SSJ: 450

Yardrat Goku: 10
-SSJ: 500


Future 17 (<50%): 380

Future 18 (<50%): 380

SSJ Future Gohan (2 arms): 330
-1 arm: 420

SSJ Future Vegeta: 325


That's about as tight as I can swing it without assuming that Vegeta lost power after Goku died. It's tough because 1 arm Gohan knew he was going to die to the androids but also had confidence in his own abilities, which tells me that he's above them individually but below them as a group. It puts a cap on the <50% future androids.

I would just ignore the OVA personally and go with Gohan fighting the androids once, which is a similar case to Trunks fighting them despite barely being stronger than 1 arm Gohan. I don't think the gap between 2 arm Gohan and Vegeta needs to be big.

 

[Dagon]

I mean, he doesn't have Super Saiyan. That would explain everything. It seems like Base Trunks > Vegeta as well. But I always envisioned him within striking distance to Trunks, not one shot distance. What numbers do you have for the 3 Base Saiyans?

No.

Toyotaro merely drew Vegeta in the future arc in base, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have super Saiyan. It just means in that moment he wasn't using the form. We only get one panel. That's not enough to say he certainly hadn't unlocked it yet.

Gohan challenging the androids could be Gohan's sense of duty to protect people even at his own peril.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan challenging the androids could be Gohan's sense of duty to protect people even at his own peril.

In the TV special at least he’s out for blood in both fights.

 

[SIAD]

Who is stronger between Future Vegeta Base (Anime) and Future Piccolo?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Who is stronger between Future Vegeta Base (Anime) and Future Piccolo?

If Vegeta was a SSJ (like in the anime) then Piccolo > Base Vegeta.

If Vegeta wasn’t a SSJ, Base Vegeta > Piccolo.