TLJ Luke Skywalker VS Emperor Palpatine

[Captain Cadaver]

Battle scenario 1: Both wielding a Lightsaber
Battle scenario 2: No weapons. Purely a battle of their strength in the Force
- Both in character
- Canon version of Palpatine
- Fight takes place in Coruscant's Senate.

Considering Luke's projection from another end of the Galaxy by his own power compared to Palpatine needing a Sith ritual with Dooku's help to do a similar feat, would you say Luke's strength in the Force was superior to Palpatine's at the end of The Last Jedi, or would you say the toll it took on Luke to mean the opposite?

 

[Southern Gothic]

Scenario 1: Palpatine smokes Luke. I don't see Luke having nearly enough feats in Lightsaber combat to pull this off, while RotS and Clone Wars basically made Palps completely OP using a saber, specifically soloing Maul and Savage Opress while barely breaking a sweat. Yoda is an obvious example too, and it should be pointed out that Sheev was basically laughing the whole time through both battles.

Luke also got dropped by Rey after she pulled out the saber. Doesn't bode well for him.

Scenario 2: I'm the biggest Sheev fanboy there is, but I have to acknowledge Lucas stating that Luke would become the most powerful Jedi of all time. Now, this was before the Disney buyout but it should still hold some water.
This gets interesting because Luke's projection feat was impressive, but I don't know how it would translate to combat in a closed setting. I'll still give this to Luke, althoug if Palps has any advantage here it's going to come from cunning and resourcefulness.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Luke also got dropped by Rey after she pulled out the saber. Doesn't bode well for him.

To be fair, not only did Luke get caught off guard, but it didn't seem as though he was taking the fight too seriously. He was casually fending off Rey when they fought with staffs and didn't attempt to retrieve the Lightsaber from her during this part. You could also argue he was out of his element at this point, as he'd just barely rekindled his connection to the Force prior.

I do agree with you for Scenario 1 though and it's in here more as a formality. Hell, the only reason Mace was able to keep up with Palpatine as long as he did was due to Vapaad being the perfect counter to any Dark Side user. Luke's best Lightsaber feats were in RotJ against a Vader who was conflicted about his allegiance in a similar manner to Kylo being unbalanced against Finn and Rey, at least according to Snoke, so it's safe to say Luke's saber skills aren't Grand Master tier.

In terms of strength in the Force, I'd give it to Luke. Not only is there the projection feat, but it seemed to be implied Snoke still viewed Luke as a threat to both he and Kylo Ren, which says a lot when Snoke's feats in tooling Rey were arguably even more impressive than Canon Sheev's feats of raw strength in the Force. Luke also wouldn't let his guard down like he did on Death Star II, so I don't see Palpatine pulling out a game-changing strategy in this scenario.

 

[Southern Gothic]

I figured you would say something similar to this regarding Rey catching Luke off guard. And I agree. I chose to include in anyway because Luke being out of his element, being newly reconnected to the Force, et cetera, still go against him in a fight with Palps. If Rey can manage to take advantage of him in this scenario, or if he even jusr slipped up due to being rusty, then that is something Sheev would exploit to an even greater degree and with more ruthlessness.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Whilst it may seem like a bit of an asspull, it did seem as though Luke got back into his prime in between that scene and his projection on Crait based on his performance against Ben who's at least equal to Rey. You could assume that due to his words with Yoda, Luke's mind became clear and whatever walls he'd built up that were limiting his abilities were removed.

 

[Southern Gothic]

Of course it wasn't an asspull...this is Luke Skywalker. If you ask me he should have had even more asspulls instead of being a bum.

 

[Pyro]

I think Luke was back in business just long enough to use that projection against Ren, but he really didn't have much left in the tank. His age and neglect of the Force for so many years probably didn't bode well for his body's capacity.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I think Luke was back in business just long enough to use that projection against Ren, but he really didn't have much left in the tank. His age and neglect of the Force for so many years probably didn't bode well for his body's capacity.

Do you imagine he'd be able to use Force projection for significantly longer if it'd been himself during his time as Grand Master in the flashback? If so, how do you think that version would fare in both match ups?

 

[sei'taer]

Luke should be far stronger in a straight force battle. I'd imagine Sidious would be superior in lightsaber combat just because it doesn't seem like luke was ever classically trained in lightsaber combat.

Him losing to Rey means nothing when losing to Rey is a new universal constant in the star wars universe. Not that he was taking that fight seriously at all. Also Rey and Kylo's raw power is greater than anything in the series thus far. So stronger than luke or the emperor or probably even full potential anakin.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Also Rey and Kylo's raw power is greater than anything in the series thus far. So stronger than luke or the emperor or probably even full potential anakin.

I think Luke's statement was in comparison to his Padawans rather than every Force user he ever encountered. Sure, Rey may be the ultimate Mary Sue, but I doubt Kylo Ren would have any sort of fear about never being as strong as Darth Vader in TFA if his raw strength was already superior. You could argue it was due to Vader being a far superior leader and skilled in his abilities, but considering he was Palpatine's attack dog more often than not during the Galactic Empire's prime and primarily fought using his raw, rage fuelled strength, I highly doubt Kylo's raw strength is truly superior.