ToP and Moro arcs vs. Fullbring and Thousand Year Blood War arcs

[Papasmurf]

Which two arcs have greater saturations of plot holes, contrivances, dragging (take into account that Super comes out monthly), and just poor trolling in general?

 

[SSJ2]

I don't have to have any knowledge of Bleach to know that it's automatically superior.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Bleach was never good to begin with, so Super in general wins for being a bigger insult to the franchise. ToP and Moro Arcs are more entertaining to read though just to see how worse the writing can get as they go on, whereas those two arcs of Bleach are so devoid of anything worth investing in that they barely even classify as trash entertainment.

 

[Papasmurf]

Bleach was never good to begin with, so Super in general wins for being a bigger insult to the franchise. ToP and Moro Arcs are more entertaining to read though just to see how worse the writing can get as they go on, whereas those two arcs of Bleach are so devoid of anything worth investing in that they barely even classify as trash entertainment.

Yeah, but Super is ongoing and has god knows how much longer to get worse and worse. Shueisha pulled the plug on Bleach 5 years ago. The Moro arc's record breaking levels of bad writing pretty much cements that no matter how low you set your expectations, Toyo will usually find a way to disappoint further. And V-Jump will never pull the plug on it because unlike Heroes it has (somewhat dubious) canonicity going for it and sells copies no matter how shitty it truly is.

If Bleach was able to survive the 28-volume Arrancar saga on top of the hilariously bad follow-up arcs with a dwindling fanbase, I can't even imagine how much longer they will be able to milk Super. Especially when a lot of people didn't even read Bleach past Aizen's defeat while we're still reading Super even if it is to get informed on how awful the writing is.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yeah, I'd fully agree Super is by far objectively worse than Bleach. As pure trash entertainment though, Super can at least evoke some kind of emotion out of me, whereas Bleach's so repetitive in its structure (most of the fights in the last arc being a bunch of the typical reversals that make it more fitting to be titled Bankai tennis) that everything about it ends up being utterly forgettable or indistinguishable.

 

[Papasmurf]

What really grinds my gears about Super is that most monthly manga by people who are competent (Parasyte and FMA being good examples) at least take the time to really ponder where the story direction is going, how the series can be distinguished from the rest and usually at least justify asspulls with character stupidity. Like Greed getting the bright idea to never use his armor form after his rebirth except one time against Central soldiers still being explained (in a contrived way) by his dislike of how the form looks. Or Goto absorbing Migi since his head almost fell off and it makes some sense that he'd absorb another parasyte to help mend his wounds. Obviously both instances are born out of out of universe reasons like a need for Greed to not be completely OP to Bradley or Pride since only alchemists can alter his carbon density and Parasyte's narrative needing Migi to survive; but despite those asspulls the rest of the story is good enough that you can get enjoyment out of them even without throwing your critical lenses out the window like with Super or some other form of filthy peasantry. Bleach definitely isn't good, but I think Kubo at least tried harder than Toyotaro who literally has 42 volumes of reference material plus numerous guidebooks and his writing is still just as bad as Bleach's later arcs.

Bleach may be worse than Yu-Gi-Oh filler and essentially functions like Bankai tennis or a game of asspull poker, but there are at least a few ok character backstories. Super just shits all over every character ever established.

Super is the type of filthy peasantry that gets to thrive off the DB brand name while I honestly found zero interest in reading Bleach past the beginning of the Hueco Mundo section of Arrancar and I only did it to pass the time and test how much of the retardation I could take. Same could be said of Naruto past the introduction of the wind element training, which is where I dropped the series until I started reading it again in 2012 to see how stupid the Obito twist was. Super still being DB makes it very difficult to drop it once you're far into it and that's why chapters like this month's Senzu eating Planet Merger Moro trash getting approved by Toriyama honestly makes me grind my teeth.

 

[Papasmurf]

And I'm the last guy who would defend Bleach. I could see what a travesty it was when I was 14 and dropped it accordingly. But Toriyama actually accepting someone as talentless as Toyotaro as a co-creator and letting him get away with THIS much faggotry just makes me mad.

 

[SSJ2]

It's just pathetic that it takes 30 days to produce this generic, unoriginal trash. As brutal as One Piece has been in Part 2, it is still infinitely superior to this garbage that Toriyama is allowing. Oda has written almost 1000 chapters and can still write a somewhat compelling story on a near weekly basis, whereas this clown has written a mere 65 chapters and is already making his manga a carbon copy of original ideas... except executed unquantifiably worse.

I find it laughable whenever I consider that Super precedes the EoZ. Toriyama is continuing to endorse content that completely ruins his original work.

I guess it's fair to say that 28th Budokai Oob could easily defeat Beerus. I'd believe it at this point honestly. Fucking trash.

 

[Papasmurf]

Calling it now. Since Super is so unoriginal I'm willing to bet they will breeze through the EoZ events like the Broly arc with a few panels of exposition and retread GT, except with worse designs, worse character integrity and worse pacing

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Like Greed getting the bright idea to never use his armor form after his rebirth except one time against Central soldiers still being explained (in a contrived way) by his dislike of how the form looks.

It's also worth noting that, along with his arrogance during both fights with Wrath (underestimating him in the first and being confident in Ling's advice in the second), it's also worth noting his limited uses of it were probably down to Ling not being able to activate it when in control, given the only full usage of it was against fodder that he didn't need to rely on Ling's fighting skills for. Whilst he could've used it against Wrath in the rematch, it may not have been too beneficial since Wrath wouldn't be dumb enough to attack him pointlessly and could just fall back to another strategy, hence why trying to stop him there and then by focusing on attack rather than defence was deemed the better option.

As for the absolute state of current Toriyama, it's baffling that he made this poor choice in successors not once, but twice. He also treat Ooishi as someone worthy of carrying his mantle despite how universally ridiculed by the fanbase Episode of Bardock was .

 

[SSJ2]

Can't wait for MUI SSJ4 Blue Goku to struggle to defeat Zunama.

 

[Papasmurf]

Fuck I need to get some air lmao, talking about Super's bullshit this long is making me angry.

 

[Papasmurf]

Like Greed getting the bright idea to never use his armor form after his rebirth except one time against Central soldiers still being explained (in a contrived way) by his dislike of how the form looks.

It's also worth noting that, along with his arrogance during both fights with Wrath (underestimating him in the first and being confident in Ling's advice in the second), it's also worth noting his limited uses of it were probably down to Ling not being able to activate it when in control, given the only full usage of it was against fodder that he didn't need to rely on Ling's fighting skills for. Whilst he could've used it against Wrath in the rematch, it may not have been too beneficial since Wrath wouldn't be dumb enough to attack him pointlessly and could just fall back to another strategy, hence why trying to stop him there and then by focusing on attack rather than defence was deemed the better option.

None of that really justifies Greed's lack of usage of the form since

a) being unarmored the first time he fought Wrath and getting chopped up before he could harden was why he lost
b) he didn't relinquish control to Ling more than once (voluntarily at least)

But my point is that that one asspull along with a few during the Father fight isn't enough for me to consider FMA anything close to a travesty. Super makes more of a travesty of itself in 20 pages

As for the absolute state of current Toriyama, it's baffling that he made this poor choice in successors not once, but twice. He also treat Ooishi as someone worthy of carrying his mantle despite how universally ridiculed by the fanbase Episode of Bardock was .

At least he eventually realized his mistake though and relegated Ooishi to just drawing that gay SD spinoff. Trashtaro will make a solid living off of Super for a decade at this rate.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

At least he eventually realized his mistake though and relegated Ooishi to just drawing that gay SD spinoff. Trashtaro will make a solid living off of Super for a decade at this rate.

It's still pretty astounding how both his choices for successors were not just complete failures, but of such an embarrassingly low standard too. It's even more surprising when considering how many famous mangaka were inspired by DB and how many of them would jump at the chance to be involved in new DB content, particularly when Dragon Garrow Lee is by far the best choice art-wise and a more accomplished mangaka could help with the story if need be.
As bad as Kishimoto got, a DB story written by him would even be better than what we've got from Super and something definitely more worthwhile than him milking Boruto, for instance .

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, many mangas have multiple story writers, like Master Keaton or how Ashita no Joe had a lot of input from the artist since the credited writer had to work on a bunch of other projects. They still turned out fine. Toriyama contributes so little to Super beyond writing little notes for the rough draft and doing a few designs that I'm pretty sure he's only involved this way so they can market Super as canon unlike how GT failed to reverse the decline in popularity that DB suffered during the Boo arc (which partially could've been due to lack of creator involvement and lack of a manga to further promote the show).

with how many mangaka were influenced by Toriyama (to the point that Oda for example remembers the story better than AT does), they honestly could've gotten an experienced mangaka who's a fan to do the art/part of the story. Hell, they could've probably found someone who can keep Galu in character better than Toyotaro off 2chan