Turning super saiyan

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

Is just intense rage and being strong enough right? The whole "need not desire" thing I'm pretty sure is just english dub. Is there a realization of limits? Pure(good or evil) heart?

 

[Clearin]

When Vegeta first transforms (on panel) he says "I thought you had to have a pure heart", to which Vegeta replies his heart is pure evil.

Vegeta does say he ran into a wall when training to be a Super Saiyan, but he specifically says it was rage (over reaching that limit) that awoken the Super Saiyan transformation.

There's no specific mention to any minimum amount of power, but when Vegeta got stronger in the Freeza saga he said he was "closer to becoming a Super Saiyan" or something similar, and then when Gohan surpassed him with a rage boost Vegeta wondered if Gohan was the closest to being a Super Saiyan.

I'm not sure if there's any more things about it. Basically it's just rage and a minimum power...maybe a pure heart, but as far as I know that's only mentioned once by Krillin, so maybe he was mistaken?

The minimum power is debatable too. Vegeta seemed to think that simply having a certain amount of power made you a Super Saiyan, so it's likely not that.

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

Wasn't it said by the narrator in the manga that goku had the potential to become a ssj after his gravity training on the way to namek?

 

[Clearin]

Narrator: “Even Goku hasn’t realized…That somewhere along the line he’s acquired enough power to surpass the level of Saiyan limits…â€￾

It's kind of vague, but Vegeta does make it sound like you need to overcome Saiyan limits to be a Super Saiyan:

Vegeta: “A Super Saiyan appears once every thousand years… a Saiyan who overcomes the wall which no warrior, no matter how gifted, can overcome…That’s supposed to just be a stupid tradition…And even if the legend were true…only I would have the potential to become a Super Saiyan.â€￾

Vegeta: “That’s right…I’ve surpassed Saiyan limits, and my strength is still increasing more and more…The truth is that I’ve realized it too…That this extension of my power isn’t merely what you’d call giftedness…In other words…I’m steadily drawing near…to becoming a Super Saiyan!â€￾

But if overcoming Saiyan limits is the minimum power requirement it can't be very high. 90,000 is the bare maximum. Presumably 30,000 is still in these limits though since Vegeta doesn't say he's passed the Saiyan limits until after he gets his Zenkai from the Ginyu Force.

There's a problem with this though. Gohan's power is above 90,000 when he fights Freeza, and he has a huge rage moment when he thinks Krillin died, despite these being the only stated requirements (along with possibly a pure heart, which Gohan also has) he doesn't transform here.

 

[Papasmurf]

The "pure heart" thing was first mentioned by Goku when he turned Super Saiyan on Namek when he declared himself "the legendary warrior with a calm heart, awakened by rage" or something like that.

 

[Clearin]

The "pure heart" thing was first mentioned by Goku when he turned Super Saiyan on Namek when he declared himself "the legendary warrior with a calm heart, awakened by rage" or something like that.

Wouldn't any pure hearted Super Saiyan be the same even if that wasn't a requirement though? Rage is an essential requirement for all Super Saiyans. The fact that Goku had a calm heart just meant that that heart had to be awoken by rage. We know you don't need a calm heart at all due to Vegeta, but he gives us the cop out "pure evil" line.

 

[Papasmurf]

The "pure heart" thing was first mentioned by Goku when he turned Super Saiyan on Namek when he declared himself "the legendary warrior with a calm heart, awakened by rage" or something like that.

Wouldn't any pure hearted Super Saiyan be the same even if that wasn't a requirement though? Rage is an essential requirement for all Super Saiyans. The fact that Goku had a calm heart just meant that that heart had to be awoken by rage. We know you don't need a calm heart at all due to Vegeta, but he gives us the cop out "pure evil" line.

It's really the author circumventing what he established in the Freeza arc where Freeza concludes this is the reason that Vegeta could never go Super Saiyan, no matter how hard he tried - and Vegeta later goes ahead and cops out with "My heart was calm. Calm and pure. Only, it was pure evil."

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Power does come from a need. Need of the plot.

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense. Gohan was above 90,000 at the time wasn't he? So getting a rage boost at that point should've resulted in transforming

Maybe it isn't the power level but how intense the training they went through?

Just to be sure, the "need" to become a ssj is just a dub line right?

 

[Clearin]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense. Gohan was above 90,000 at the time wasn't he? So getting a rage boost at that point should've resulted in transforming

Maybe it isn't the power level but how intense the training they went through?

Just to be sure, the "need" to become a ssj is just a dub line right?

That was from Gohan and Goku's conversation in the time chamber, right? I can't see it in the Manga. Goku only mentions rage.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't think there's a minimum power for Super-Saiyan. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I don't think there's a minimum power for Super-Saiyan. It doesn't make sense to me.

Of course there is. Not every plain Saiyan with a PL of a few thousands can do it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't think there's a minimum power for Super-Saiyan. It doesn't make sense to me.

Of course there is. Not every plain Saiyan with a PL of a few thousands can do it.

Really?

Why not?

Maybe they just didn't have the right conditions to turn or not everyone can turn, but I don't think power plays a factor in it.