Vegeta and Piccolo on Earth

[ahill1]

In your guys opinions, what would be Piccolo and Vegeta's battle powers when they were transported to Earth by the Namekian Dragon Balls? As soon as they reached Earth's land and Piccolo got healed by Dende, I mean.


Also, if Vegeta wished, do you think he could conquer the Earth at that time, without Goku there?

 

[ahill1]

Pretty much the same as on Namek I'd say, but I'd like to know still, since some ppl might assume Piccolo still has got Gohan and Kuririn's energy infleuncing his battle power.

 

[SSJ2]

Don't know for battle powers.

I don't think Vegeta could have done it. I suppose it's possible, but he'd have to get lucky. If he tried fighting Piccolo and Gohan together, I don't think he'd win.

 

[ahill1]

Doesn't he have a considerable enough gap to overwhelm both of them though? I mean Gohan got way stronger post his Zenkai, but he was still some steps below even 2nd form Freeza. Piccolo was completely stomped by 3rd form Freeza to the point he could barely see him. Vegeta, post his Zenkai, was sharp enough that he could see, react and force final form Freeza to increase his speed, and final from Freeza's speed ought to have been at least decently above that of 3rd form Freeza's... so I think Vegeta should have been able to deal with Piccolo here without any problems, unless Piccolo still got the power 'borrowed' from both Gohan and Kuririn.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm assuming that post zenkai Gohan would get a rage boost in the fight, that's why I can see it being closer. Not to mention I think it's certainly possible that Piccolo kept that energy. He was at 100% after getting healed and then obtained their energy, so I think it would push his power past it's limits.

 

[ahill1]

I'm assuming that post zenkai Gohan would get a rage boost in the fight, that's why I can see it being closer. Not to mention I think it's certainly possible that Piccolo kept that energy. He was at 100% after getting healed and then obtained their energy, so I think it would push his power past it's limits.

Yeah, but Gohan's enraged full power blast was still bounced back by 3rd form Freeza, so I don't see post Zenkai Vegeta having much (if any at all) problems with it, honestly. Specially that if you look at Gohan as soon as Freeza killed Dende, he seemed kind of enraged, looking at Freeza with an angry face and then being the first one to attack him... Freeza could still dodge that when not exerting himself at all, yet Vegeta could apparently compete with that kind of speed. It kind of sounds to me that Vegeta is in a different level from them, hypothetical enraged Gohan included.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Near enough the same as they were on Namek. Piccolo may have received the Ki from Gohan and Kuririn, and I believe the intake of it could be a permanent one as if Piccolo could handle it, his body should adapt to such a threshold. However, Gohan was worn out from his attack on 3rd form Freeza, so if Piccolo's power did increase, the Ki from he and Kuririn wouldn't stack up to bringing Piccolo to Vegeta's level. At the absolute most, I'd say he might rival 3rd form Freeza by the end of the arc, given offering a boost to Piccolo would make his implications of catching up to Vegeta by the next arc reasonable.
If we take the anime into account though, Piccolo rivals Vegeta at that point due to talking him down when Vegeta decided to beat up Gohan in filler.

 

[ahill1]

Near enough the same as they were on Namek. Piccolo may have received the Ki from Gohan and Kuririn, and I believe the intake of it could be a permanent one as if Piccolo could handle it, his body should adapt to such a threshold. However, Gohan was worn out from his attack on 3rd form Freeza, so if Piccolo's power did increase, the Ki from he and Kuririn wouldn't stack up to bringing Piccolo to Vegeta's level. At the absolute most, I'd say he might rival 3rd form Freeza by the end of the arc, given offering a boost to Piccolo would make his implications of catching up to Vegeta by the next arc reasonable.
If we take the anime into account though, Piccolo rivals Vegeta at that point due to talking him down when Vegeta decided to beat up Gohan in filler.

What would be your numbers? And do you think that Vegeta could handily defeat Piccolo at that time?

The anime sequence seems pretty weird though, considering that moments before beating up Gohan, Vegeta was shit talking them all, saying that with Goku and Freeza's death he'd be the new tyrant of the Universe, and that his dream is finally coming true. He knew Piccolo was there and still wasn't the least bit worried, like if Piccolo's presence wasn't a threat to him at all. Then, he beats up on enraged Gohan (Gohan starts getting the upper hand initially, but Vegeta stated he was going easy on him because he is a child) and then he easily pummels Gohan left from right, who had to be healed by Dende after that... and if we take the Freeza's saga implications enraged Gohan should have been above Piccolo. Granted that it isn't possible to know if Gohan accessed the same level on Earth he accessed when on Namek, but everything else deosn't match Vegeta running away from Piccolo later, specially taking into account the Saiyajin's confidence whilst in the presence of Piccolo... that only makes sense if Vegeta just then realized that Piccolo was in a similar plateau to himself, which seems also bonky. But yeah, since that's filler it doesn't matter so much.

What would be your numbers, btw?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Piccolo - 1,575,000
Vegeta - 2,375,000
Kuririn - 250,000
Gohan - 1,040,000
Gohan (post-enraged blast) - 320,000
Piccolo (Gohan + Kuririn's Ki) - 2,145,000

Vegeta can still win pretty handily when taking the minimalist route, using FP Vegeta VS Kaioken x2 Goku as a benchmark.

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo - 1,575,000
Vegeta - 2,375,000
Kuririn - 250,000
Gohan - 1,040,000
Gohan (post-enraged blast) - 320,000
Piccolo (Gohan + Kuririn's Ki) - 2,145,000

Vegeta can still win pretty handily when taking the minimalist route, using FP Vegeta VS Kaioken x2 Goku as a benchmark.

Wow, did Gohan's powers take such a dip after firing that blast at 3rd form Freeza?

BTW, where would you have 3rd form Freeza, battle power-wise?

Also, I remember that in your battle power list over at Shinden you used to have post Zenkai Vegeta in the 3,000,000 mark with Goku in the 6,000,000 mark and 3rd form Freeza in the 2,000,000 mark, if my memory isn't failing me.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Wow, did Gohan's powers take such a dip after firing that blast at 3rd form Freeza?

Gohan's Ki wasn't implied to be much more of a contribution than Kuririn's, so I'd assume his power bumped down to what it was when 1st form Freeza arrived.

BTW, where would you have 3rd form Freeza, battle power-wise?

1,890,000

Also, I remember that in your battle power list over at Shinden you used to have post Zenkai Vegeta in the 3,000,000 mark with Goku in the 6,000,000 mark and 3rd form Freeza in the 2,000,000 mark, if my memory isn't failing me.

That was when I cared about such a trivial concept as battle powers or gaps. After realising care in such a contradictive discussion point is folly, I have no problem placing Goku at the level the Daiz gave him, seeing as how battle powers are purely a plot device anyway.

 

[ahill1]

That was when I cared about such a trivial concept as battle powers or gaps. After realising care in such a contradictive discussion point is folly, I have no problem placing Goku at the level the Daiz gave him, seeing as how battle powers are purely a plot device anyway.

How do you view the Vegeta vs final form Freeza issue? Do you think Vegeta's confidence came merely from the fact that he thought he was a SSJ, or also by the fact that he was also rather powerful after being healed by Dende? He seemed to be keeping up with Freeza's speed -- albeit wih problems -- but then Freeza stated he merely increased his speed and there's no statement about him increasing his power as well. Maybe Vegeta couldn't get an accurate reading towards Freeza's actuall battle power as this latter was merely dodging the other warriors and not exerting himself too much? Or maybe Freeza's speed wasn't in sync with his strength? I dunno.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd assume it may be a similar case to Cell's Ki being a lie. Either that, or Freeza didn't bothering mentioning the increase in power. After all, considering Freeza doesn't have expert Ki control in his true form according to himself and can't sense Ki, it'd seem illogical for him to finely tune his Ki to the point he could boost his speed without his power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Kuririn - 250,000

Shouldn't he be higher? I mean, his power was constantly growing stronger during the fight. Unless you think he started much weaker than that on the Freeza fight?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Kuririn - 250,000

Shouldn't he be higher? I mean, his power was constantly growing stronger during the fight. Unless you think he started much weaker than that on the Freeza fight?

I think it's still high enough to be somewhat relevant in a 3 on 1 match with transformed Freeza when Vegeta was already rivalling 1st form Freeza. Neither his nor Gohan's power was implied to rise any further after Vegeta made the statement, save for Zenkais of the latter, so I don't see Kuririn getting any stronger than this by the time of his death.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The more I think about this scene, the more I believe none of them had a good feel for Freeza's power. Sure, they noticed his Chi go up when he transformed, but that's it.

Vegeta felt Freeza's power...then immediately went into his delusional talk because he was confident he became a Super Saiyan:

I believe Vegeta's power likely stood out more based on Goku's reaction to both:

Despite Freeza easily taking Vegeta down, Goku still appeared to be in awe at Freeza's ability to do that to the newly powered-up Vegeta. The fact that he questioned Freeza's power there tells me Goku likely thought Vegeta would've been a good match for Freeza at his current level.

What I think is Vegeta's power-up could be seen as one that was more significant than Freeza's transformation.

Basically, the transition from Vegeta-->Post Zenkai>Third Form-->Final Form.

The issue is that none of them were able to tell that Freeza was still comfortably above Vegeta. Probably because he wasn't giving off too much at that moment.

 

[ahill1]

^ That's a good post, EV. Vegeta post his Zenkai should have been at least siginificantly above 3rd form Freeza, right? Otherwise Goku asking whether Freeza is that stronger after Vegeta chi starts to decrease would be rather dumb.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Anime wise, Vegeta would get trashed by some Gohan's asspulled rage boost.
Manga wise, Vegeta could have easily conquered Earth at that point.

 

[SIAD]

Personally I think Vegeta (Post Zenkai Power) was a bit stronger than Freezer Fourth Form (Initial), since Vegeta would not have so much confidence in defeating Frieza, if his power did not surpass him.

  This I have:

Freezer Fourth Form (Vs Vegeta) >>>> Vegeta (Post Zenkai Power)> Freezer Fourth Form (Vs Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin) >> Freezer Third Form.

 

[SIAD]

Piccolo - 1,575,000
Vegeta - 2,375,000
Kuririn - 250,000
Gohan - 1,040,000
Gohan (post-enraged blast) - 320,000
Piccolo (Gohan + Kuririn's Ki) - 2,145,000

Vegeta can still win pretty handily when taking the minimalist route, using FP Vegeta VS Kaioken x2 Goku as a benchmark.

And in the Anime, why Vegeta fled Piccolo? What do you think would have happened if they had faced each other in the Anime?