Vegeta on Earth above 18,000?

[ahill1]

Someone called Vertical at DBZF made a pretty good point about Vegeta being actually above 18,000 on Earth:

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/10008679/2/

I'll post it here considering maybe someone doesn't have the time to read the thread (*cough cough SuperSaiyan2)

Context: Vegeta powers up until Kui’s scouter explodes.
Vegeta: “Take a goo—ood look at my battle power figure on your scouter!”
Kyui: “I'm…impossible…! We…we were supposed to be even in strength…!”
Vegeta: “You damn fool! I’ve been fighting ceaselessly in real battles! On Earth there was such a battle that I almost died! How long did you think we’d stay even as you stayed comfortable with Freeza?!”
Kyui: “19,000…20,000…21,000…22,000…!”

Context: Freeza, Zarbon and Dodoria discuss Vegeta’s battle power as he powers up against Kui. Zarbon’s scouter had exploded.
Zarbon: "I... I think it's a malfunction, but... My scouter was set on Vegeta, and as the figures surpassed twe... 22,000..."
Dodoria: “It’s definitely a malfunction! Your scouter’s an old model, after all. I’ll check out the correct figure off mine…”
Zarbon: “What’s the figure…?”
Dodoria: "Th... that's impossible... Is my new model malfunctioning too...?! It's risen to up to twe... 24,000... !!"
Zarbon: "24,000...?! Are you saying it's higher than o... our own battle powers...?!"
Dodoria: "Th... this can't be...!! H... his battle power was barely 18,000..."
Freeza: “That shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s all because Vegeta’s been ceaselessly fighting on the front lines. Perhaps he’s caught on to something new on Earth. It’s merely 24,000. That’s a figure that you two would be more than able to win against if you fought together, is it not? Fufufu…”

"Ceaselessly" hardly seems appropriate for a single battle on Earth... implying that he's been battling for quite a while since they last saw each other... meaning he was most likely already beyond the 18,000 they last saw him at by the time he reached Earth.

Personally, based on performance, I'd put him closer to 19,500.

 

[Jerk Store]

Meh.... 18,001.

 

[sei'taer]

The perhaps he caught on to something new on earth line still implies he was 18k when he went there.

 

[ahill1]

Maybe it just means the Earth helped him to reach that power level (24,000), whereas he wouldn't be that strong without this battle.

Also, look at the Cui's fight. Cui said they were supposed to be equal, and Vegeta's answer was that "he has been fighting continuously, in real battles", implying the Earth's battle wasn't the only one who put Vegeta ahead of Cui.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

19.500-20.000 makes more sense, considering how easily he dominated 16.000 Goku

 

[Jerk Store]

I doubt if anyone else they destroyed gave them the trouble Goku did. Vegeta was more so mocking Kiwi for being lazy while he kept fighting more than saying "Every single fight I had since we last met increased my power!"

I mean Saiyajins do improve the more they fight, but if 90% of the scrubs they fight are basic one shot material such as the Arlia filler, I doubt it gave them much improvement.

The meat of Vegeta's improvements were from Earth. I believe that is what the story implies as part of Vegeta's introduction. Had anything else significant besides Earth happened, at least flash backs would be in order, or a mere mention of a specific battle pre Earth.

But meh.... If people wanna put Vegeta at 19.5 rather than 18, whatever.... Doesn't really change anything.

 

[Void]

Maybe he got rusty while sitting in that spaceship for a year on his way to Earth and went down to 17,999.

 

[Jerk Store]

Lol...... Yeah, a whole year without a (serious anyway) fight wouldn't do much for improvement either. Even if they made a few pit stops, nothing noteworthy I'm sure.

 

[ahill1]

I doubt if anyone else they destroyed gave them the trouble Goku did. Vegeta was more so mocking Kiwi for being lazy while he kept fighting more than saying "Every single fight I had since we last met increased my power!"

I mean Saiyajins do improve the more they fight, but if 90% of the scrubs they fight are basic one shot material such as the Arlia filler, I doubt it gave them much improvement.

The meat of Vegeta's improvements were from Earth. I believe that is what the story implies as part of Vegeta's introduction. Had anything else significant besides Earth happened, at least flash backs would be in order, or a mere mention of a specific battle pre Earth.

But meh.... If people wanna put Vegeta at 19.5 rather than 18, whatever.... Doesn't really change anything.

Well, Raditz did mention they have found a planet but the habitants posessed a considerable high battle power, saying it would be a tiresome work for three Saiyans. So I don't think in all planets they found one-shot scrubs. But it's hard to say considering Vegeta can completely destroy an enemy on par with Raditz with his finger.

But I don't see the point of Freeza mentioning another battles if the Earth one was the only one who gave Vegeta that increase. Maybe they made an special case of the Earth's battle due to pushing Vegeta to his limits and, therefore, giving him bigger gains.

I remember Vegeta saying somewhere on Namek (dunno if it's true) that a Saiyan gains power whenever they battle, not just from recovering from the almost death. Maybe thatbwas a case in Toriyama's head at that moment too?

 

[Jerk Store]

1. Yeah, recruiting a low class like Goku doesn't really pan out as much help, so I think that was Raditz' idea more so than Vegeta and Nappa. Vegeta was probably down with it if only to get one more Saiyajin to add to the cause. Even if they expected Kakarott to be stronger than 416, like let's say 800-900, or even with Raditz somehow, still not much help added. Would just make it slightly easier for them to finish I guess, but doesn't sound very threatening.

2. Yeah, that is a good point, and Freeza was monitoring them, hence how he found out about Namek and the DB's... But like I said, how many serious battles they had, if any, are unknown and never mentioned. Freeza coulda easily been referring to them all in general, Earth included, as I doubt Freeza monitored them to the point he knew the details of their battles beyond missions he sent them on before they went rogue.

3. I remember him saying that in the dub, but not sure if it's a canon line. Think he said it to Kiwi, but coulda been someone else. Either way, even if it is canon, I believe it, I mean serious fights are basically the same as training, only, for realsies, so I'm sure Vegeta may have gained a bit, but may have been negligible

Plus..... Paladin, joking or not, brings up a good point. Did they even make any notable stops between wherever they were to Earth in that years trip?

If they spent most of their time sleeping/meditating, and sitting around in their pods, that wouldn't help, but coulda made them even decrease slightly.... lol....

Vegeta pre Raditz defeat: 18,800
Vegeta one year later: 17,999

2

Forget my stupid numbers, but you get the idea.

Not saying you're necessarily wrong though!

 

[ahill1]

That's right, an enemy of considerable power for Raditz can easily be considered a scrub for Vegeta. But a planet of those type of enemies could be considered an annoyance I guess. On Earth, Vegeta stated he chose a night of full moon to destroy the Earthlings quicker, so the odds are high he doesn't want a battle and just end thing quick.

I think Vegeta referred to Zarbon that them Saiyans get stronger after ferocious battles, not just near deaths power ups, unless by ferocious battle he meant a battle where he barely survived and made a recovery, dunno. Like you said, while Zenkais are a way of quick gaining power, continuously battling enemies (even if the battle isn't a ferocious one) might be considering a way of training and, in consequence, of getting a power up. Better to stay sitted at Freeza's side, I guess.

Anime-wise, Vegeta and Nappa stopped into a planet and after a little brawl they destroyed it. I don't think they did stop in the manga, considering Nappa said how he was out of activity for that much time.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The only fight that pushed Vegeta's zenkai to beyond was the fight on Earth that's it and learned a few tricks there as well. At best his PL is around 18.5K but certainly not 19K.

 

[Jerk Store]

Well, I dunno if they have ways of maintaining power through meditation, not sure if Saiyajins normally did the whole still training thing. Who knows.... But generally going by 18k is fine, so is 19.5... I don't see an issue with either.

Interesting theory to fill the backstory of a good gap in time. More exciting than "they slept, ate, and shit the whole way"

But you know, theories vs facts crowd, plus the old timers like me, but worse who will call you an idiot for going against the grain. Could be a hard sell for many people.

I don't know, they coulda had one big battle before Earth, I just think they woulda mentioned it and the things Freeza and Vegeta said about all his battles are kinda vague cause Earth is included in it and blah blah blah...

I like the theory though. Maybe they ran into Beerus and he farted on them while passing by. He was asleep, so he was like, sleep flying..... Fuck, I dunno, that joke fell flat on it's ass.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

If you think about it King Vegeta PL should be around 10K+ and Vegeta stated that he surpassed his father PL when he was a kid so he coud be around 11-13K at least yet over the years he managed to reached only 18K lol. That shows Vegeta had a hard time gaining a zenkai that can push his PL to beyond and it was the fight with Goku/Gohan/Krillin and Yajirove [lol] that did it.

 

[Jerk Store]

Yajirobe's a beast!!!! Silent tail assassin! Quieter than a kienzan!

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It just remind me a lot why the Saiyan arc fights is one of the best with drama and intensity with the stake are Yuge!

 

[Kyo]

He could be above 18k but whatever gains he made prior to Earth had to have been much smaller in comparison. Dude was so powerful already that the doctor found it strange how damaged his armor was. Vegeta later talks getting stronger due to participating in battles but only cites the post-Earth boost as the significant one several times. It's not a difference worth considering imo.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

24,000 :what

 

[Vertical]

I'd say it really depends on the last time Vegeta and the Freeza scrubs had last interacted.

The timeline starts, at the very least, from when the decision was made to send Raditz to Earth.

So, basically, the proposal is that the Saiyans have a few [mis]adventures, at least one of which was too much to handle... leading to Vegeta gaining a little strength from his "ceaseless" battles. +1,500 over the course of a few years doesn't seem so much... and still leaves Earth's zenkai and technique acquirement as the only one worth highlighting.

 

[ahill1]

I'd say it really depends on the last time Vegeta and the Freeza scrubs had last interacted.

The timeline starts, at the very least, from when the decision was made to send Raditz to Earth.

So, basically, the proposal is that the Saiyans have a few [mis]adventures, at least one of which was too much to handle... leading to Vegeta gaining a little strength from his "ceaseless" battles. +1,500 over the course of a few years doesn't seem so much... and still leaves Earth's zenkai and technique acquirement as the only one worth highlighting.

So basically Vegeta gained a little power up through his many battles, but he highlighted the Earth one due to there being a bigger boost involved and learning how to control chi?