Very basic ^_^ Questions...

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Low Class Warrior
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1. Why did Goku say Buu's chi is like a lie?

2. What is the gap between father and son? Trunks & Goten compared to Goku and Vegeta during the Buu arc.
If the gap is not that big (which most of you agree), did Goku use a hyperbole when he said SSj Gokhan is enough to defeat Gotenks absorbed Buu?

3. Was there a reason why TOEI went against the manga and made Kid Buu the strongest of all the Buu's?

4. Are the saiyans stronger than Kaioshin in their base form?

5. Why did Gohan use SSj1 against Dabura? His close friend is Krillin and Piccolo and they both been turned into a statue.
 

FutureProtagonist

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Why did Goku say Buu's chi is like a lie?
It's prone to suddenly becoming a lot bigger. That does seem to be basically the same thing as suppression, but I suspect there's something a bit more. Like, you can't tell if Boo is holding back the way you could for someone else. Take Cell. Korin was able to (with some degree of accuracy), predict his power, even though he hadn't shown much of it. I feel like Boo is kind of the opposite.
2.What is the gap between father and son? Trunks & Goten compared to Goku and Vegeta during the Buu arc.
If the gap is not that big (which most of you agree), did Goku use a hyperbole when he said SSj Gokhan is enough to defeat Gotenks absorbed Buu?
Gap between them? Not too big. Trunks did manage to hit Vegeta, and Goten is on par with Gohan who isn't implied to be that much weaker than Goku and Vegeta. Neither of those two increased that much and Gohan didn't lose that much either.

No. He knew at that point that Potara didn't have the same limitations as the dance (no need for suppression).
3. Was there a reason why TOEI went against the manga and made Kid Buu the strongest of all the Buu's?
About the GT Perfect Files said:
There is an "All Nude" collection of drawings of Goku. They were created for the sequence where Goku turns SSJ4.
4. Are the saiyans stronger than Kaioshin in their base form?
Yes. Kaioshin expected them to have x power as Super Saiyans, but they had y power in base, where y > x. He's also afraid of Yakon's speed, while Goku is at least that fast himself.
5. Why did Gohan use SSj1 against Dabura? His close friend is Krillin and Piccolo and they both been turned into a statue.
:troll
 

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No. He knew at that point that Potara didn't have the same limitations as the dance (no need for suppression).

I wasn't referring to potara, before Lord Kaioshin gave them the earrings, Goku suggested in using the fusion technique with Gohan in which requires Gohan to match Goku's level. So basically Gokhan (fusion dance) is equal to Gogeta.

My question was, did Goku overestatmate and A. Toriyama used that as a hyperbole or was he serious when he said he thought Gokhan can beat Gotenks absorbed Buu?
 

FutureProtagonist

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He never quite said that. He said "we'll use fusion, we'll win for sure!", and that's it. Nothing about forms. He may have been planning on becoming SSJ3. I think that's pretty likely, considering the power difference. Super Saiyan comes from when he said "should I become a Super Saiyan before having Gohan put this [earring] on?".
 

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FutureProtagonist said:
He never quite said that. He said "we'll use fusion, we'll win for sure!", and that's it. Nothing about forms. He may have been planning on becoming SSJ3. I think that's pretty likely, considering the power difference. Super Saiyan comes from when he said "should I become a Super Saiyan before having Gohan put this [earring] on?".
Wouldn't SSj2 be better off since both of them have it?
 

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FutureProtagonist said:
He never quite said that. He said "we'll use fusion, we'll win for sure!", and that's it. Nothing about forms. He may have been planning on becoming SSJ3. I think that's pretty likely, considering the power difference. Super Saiyan comes from when he said "should I become a Super Saiyan before having Gohan put this [earring] on?".
Goku asked if he should turn into SSJ before fusing to Gohan which implied that was his initial plan.
 

FutureProtagonist

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Not likely. We've established that fusion is more effective if the fusees' powers are closer. Goku using Super Saiyan (which has no disadvantages compared to SSJ2) is just a poor plan. With the potara, Goku knows that that's no longer a factor. I'm not even particularly sold that he really intended to use "Super Saiyan" with the Potara. He asked that question just to get a power estimate from Elder Kaioshin and adjust his plans accordingly. In that particular case, he was planning on just staying in base. He might have been expecting "maybe you should go to level 2, just in case" or something like that.
 

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You made a lot of assumption and I don't know where you getting this from but Goku asking Elder Kaioshin to estimate their power is ok but why would he ask to turn SSJ only? It doesn't make any sense since it will take SS3 Gokhan to beat Bootenks [not in my opinion] and yet he just asked to turn SSJ only? That doesn't work.
 

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Vegeta went ssj2 against Kid Boo and Goku's SSJ3 was referred to by its official name...
 

Zippy

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withheldforprivacy said:
I don't care how it was called but how it was treated.
What do you mean? It was treated as the form that matched the last villian of the show.
 

FutureProtagonist

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Lord Saiyajin said:
You made a lot of assumption and I don't know where you getting this from but Goku asking Elder Kaioshin to estimate their power is ok but why would he ask to turn SSJ only? It doesn't make any sense since it will take SS3 Gokhan to beat Bootenks [not in my opinion] and yet he just asked to turn SSJ only? That doesn't work.
He's not using fusion anymore. He's using Potara. The situation is different.

Let's analyze this from your point of view:

-Goku is certain that fusing with Gohan (via dance) with Super Saiyan will definitely make him strong enough to beat Boo.
-Goku learns about this new method of fusion that has none of the downsides of the other method and is even stronger under equal circumstances.

Now he asks "should I use Super Saiyan?". Why does he do that? If he were so certain that Super Saiyan (with a method of fusion that he knows is weaker) would definitely be enough to win, why bother even asking Kaioshin about that?
 

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-Goku is certain that fusing with Gohan (via dance) with Super Saiyan will definitely make him strong enough to beat Boo. -Goku learns about this new method of fusion that has none of the downsides of the other method and is even stronger under equal circumstances.[]
What stronger? Elder Kaioshin said its greater and that doesn't have to be many times stronger than normal fusion.

Now he asks "should I use Super Saiyan?". Why does he do that? If he were so certain that Super Saiyan (with a method of fusion that he knows is weaker) would definitely be enough to win, why bother even asking Kaioshin about that?
If you look at the context, Goku asked not to estimate their power, rather if the fusion will work including their power.
 

withheldforprivacy

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Skillz_Zippy said:
withheldforprivacy said:
I don't care how it was called but how it was treated.
What do you mean? It was treated as the form that matched the last villian of the show.
At all the works after Goku stating the term SSJ2 (Fusion Saga, Yo Son, BOG, GT), SSJ2 never shows up, as
if it has been forgotten due to its similarity to SSJ1. AT even said that, at Gotenks vs Buu fight, he thought
SSJ3 was the level beyond SSJ.
 

FutureProtagonist

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What stronger? Elder Kaioshin said its greater and that doesn't have to be many times stronger than normal fusion.
So what? If it's stronger with regular fusion (in Super Saiyan), Goku shouldn't have to ask. Not when Potaras are clearly superior. Even when there's a vast power difference between the users, they can still fuse at full power and even their powers are equal, it's still stronger on top of that.
If you look at the context, Goku asked not to estimate their power, rather if the fusion will work including their power.
Not particularly. It's more like he's worried that he won't have time to turn Super Saiyan if he starts in base. Still, his desire to use Super Saiyan is interesting. I might be wrong about this, upon reviewing the Viz.
 

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So what? If it's stronger with regular fusion (in Super Saiyan), Goku shouldn't have to ask. Not when Potaras are clearly superior. Even when there's a vast power difference between the users, they can still fuse at full power and even their powers are equal, it's still stronger on top of that.
The Potara is clearly superior after Vegito was born but we're talking about when Potara was first introduced hence there will be a underrestimation.

Like I said greater doesn't have to be many x stronger.
-Piccolo stated Vegeta is greater than Gohan but the difference is smaller.
-Vegeta stated Goku is greater than Gohan but the difference is smaller.
- Vegeta was stated to be greater than Trunks but the gap is not 2-100x.

Those were example shows that greater doesn't have to be many x stronger especially when the Potara was initially introduced.

Not particularly. It's more like he's worried that he won't have time to turn Super Saiyan if he starts in base. Still, his desire to use Super Saiyan is interesting. I might be wrong about this, upon reviewing the Viz.
Goku just wanted to fuse with Gohan as a SSJ that's it.
 

Zippy

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withheldforprivacy said:
Skillz_Zippy said:
withheldforprivacy said:
I don't care how it was called but how it was treated.
What do you mean? It was treated as the form that matched the last villian of the show.
At all the works after Goku stating the term SSJ2 (Fusion Saga, Yo Son, BOG, GT), SSJ2 never shows up, as
if it has been forgotten due to its similarity to SSJ1. AT even said that, at Gotenks vs Buu fight, he thought
SSJ3 was the level beyond SSJ.
Lmao thats true Akira toryama also forgot about SSJ2 and thought SSJ3 was SSJ2, or so I heard
 

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Did a.Toriyama say Beerus cannot get stronger?
 

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