Was #18 going all out vs Mighty Mask?

[ahill1]

Some interesting points I noticed that might lead to #18 still holding back a bit:


After firing a blast (that wasn't at full power), #18 seems to be completely **** at their powers, basically saying "I didn't think they were so strong...!".

They displaying strength moderately superior to her wouldn't be the common thing if their base power were already on par with her full power?

Besides, right after it, #18 says "In that case - I better end this quick!"

The "in that case - I better end this quickly" kind of implies ending it that fast wasn't something that was on her mind until the kids showed their power as a SSJ. Well, if their base was already = her, then she wouldn't be thinking of dicking around a bit with them, but rather she would be wanting end it pretty fast, like she was when Trunks fired the blast.

 

[Classic Adamas]

No

 

[SSJ2]

That portion of the manga is in my closet and I don't feel like getting it, but did 18 not display similar facial expressions to what she looked like when she blocked Trunks' sword? I'd say she was serious.

 

[Classic Adamas]

Yeah everything is pointing to shock.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The way she fired that Chi-blast while looking away gives me the impression that she wasn't giving all she had. If anything, his weirdness got her attention, but I don't think she felt compelled enough to hit this strange guy as hard as she could. Looked pretty relaxed when the kids transformed as well.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

No, she was holding back as you can see her facial expression but you can argue that she wasn't putting that much effort. But also the kids can't fight well in that costume and I think #18 is stronger than the base kids but not as SSjin kids IMO.

 

[p123]

Either way, we have Vegeta declaring he would win the tournament in Base, with 18 right there. We have the boys declaring 18 was stronger than their dads, yet still fighting in Base.

I think 18 can be stronger than the boys, but not by a ton and the other Saiyans should all be able to beat her by this point of the story.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Her saying she'd end it quick was shown immediately afterwards to be via the Kienzan, not having extra reserves of power.

 

[ahill1]

Her saying she'd end it quick was shown immediately afterwards to be via the Kienzan, not having extra reserves of power.

Yeah, which shows SSJ kids >>> #18. But if she changed her plans upon seeing kid Trunks' blast and decided to end this quick after it, it would mean she was planning to still fight the kids a bit when they were SSJs, right? That would make no sense if she showed all of her power in the fight against the base kids, since the obvious conclusion would be SSJ >> her.

 

[Keedounan]

Good point, ahill1.

 

[ahill1]

Thanks!

 

[Void]

Against their base forms is debatable, I think the boys are a bit below her in base.

Against their Super Saiyan forms, she looked like she was going to shit herself. They put up a decent fight in base, 18 knew their SS forms would trounce her. I assume she went all out with the Kienzan, well, as much as you can go all out with that attack.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yeah, which shows SSJ kids >>> #18. But if she changed her plans upon seeing kid Trunks' blast and decided to end this quick after it, it would mean she was planning to still fight the kids a bit when they were SSJs, right? That would make no sense if she showed all of her power in the fight against the base kids, since the obvious conclusion would be SSJ >> her.

If she were planning on fighting them, then why put them in a situation in which they could move more freely, thereby benefitting them? It seems obvious her tactic was to use the rules to have them disqualified once exposed.

 

[ahill1]

If she were planning on fighting them, then why put them in a situation in which they could move more freely, thereby benefitting them?

I don't follow. What do you mean by this?

It seems obvious her tactic was to use the rules to have them disqualified once exposed.

That was her tactic once she realized how powerful they are. She didn't treat the situation with urgency before, and only after realizing how powerful they are, she said: In that case, I better end this quick, implying she wasn't ending to end it quickly before. I don't see why she just realize how powerful the kids actually are if their base were already = her full power.
What does the In that case, I better end this quick tell you?

 

[Void]

It tells me she needed to win right then or the boys would murder her. Hence 18 rushing to get them disqualified.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't follow. What do you mean by this?
What I'm saying is that if #18 was planning on fighting them for a short while afterwards, why remove their disguise when it was the only thing that would stop their SSJ selves from instantly defeating her? She obviously meant to end things immediately, not soon after that.

That was her tactic once she realized how powerful they are. She didn't treat the situation with urgency before, and only after realizing how powerful they are, she said: In that case, I better end this quick, implying she wasn't ending to end it quickly before. I don't see why she just realize how powerful the kids actually are if their base were already = her full power.
What does the In that case, I better end this quick tell you?

It tells me that the Kienzan was her only way of putting an end to it. It would be out of character for her to prolong the battle if she were capable of instantly KO'ing their base selves. She wanted the prize money, not a good fight like the Saiyans. The argument of her holding back due to them being considered regular humans at first doesn't hold up either, as if she were holding back, what was stopping her from putting forth just enough effort to instantly win whilst not making the attack fatal?

 

[Diamond Ryan]

The suit restricted the boys from fighting as well as they could. It's possible that #18 didn't realize this, and thought that their performance while restricted was representative of their full power, thus she might have thought she still held a candle to their SSj power.

 

[ahill1]

The argument of her holding back due to them being considered regular humans at first doesn't hold up either, as if she were holding back, what was stopping her from putting forth just enough effort to instantly win whilst not making the attack fatal?

Agreed, I don't like to use the "but she thought they were humans" argument either. That seems kind weak, since if she thought they were humans she wouldn't fight at the base kids level.

It tells me that the Kienzan was her only way of putting an end to it.

Not only this, but also that she only planned ending it quick upon seeing Trunks' blast. Look how she was before Trunks' blast. She was just smiling, saying she discovered who they were. Again, she only realized how strong they really were after seeing Trunks' blast. Wouldn't that [them being stronger than her] be already obvious if the kids were already showing strength on par with her full power in base?

The "In that case, I should end this quick" isn't the wording of someone who knew all along how outclassed she was. Rather, it's the wording of someone who just realized how outclassed is, which again wouldn't be the case if base = her, since concluding SSJ >>> her power would be something beyond obvious imo.

She wanted the prize money, not a good fight like the Saiyans

At the androids saga, when Vegeta stopped them, 18 was planning to meet Goku right? Yet it didn't prevent her from holding back a lot initially against Vegeta and possibly a good deal even after stating she would stop doing so.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Whilst I can agree with most of that, in regards to the #18 VS Vegeta, there were some differences. For one, #18 saw getting to Goku as more of a game than something she truly aspired for. #16 was the only one who was serious about killing Goku. At this point, #18 was living without a purpose and just killing time, a lot different from a wife and mother aiming to secure her family's finances through winning a tournament.

 

[Vertical]

She had no qualms 1-hitting a human opponent out of the ring at the start of the battle... if she could do the same to the boys, or even simply defeat them, she has no reason not to.