Was Buff Roshi stronger than Oozaru Goku? (21st)

[SSJ2]

Yamcha seems to think the Kamehameha will kill Goku despite having no clue how powerful Buff Jackie was. Oozaru Goku also seems shocked by the blast as it went by him, but was Roshi actually stronger than Goku here?

After Roshi found out about the moon causing him to transform, this is what Roshi says:



If taken literally it sounds like destroying the moon was Roshi's only hope for ending the transformation. What do you think?

 

[Jonnie Patron]

Roshi was probably gonna get buff for plan B if destroying the moon didn't work

 

[Jonnie Patron]

He might have forgot or thought it wasn't enough

 

[Power Level Guy]

If taken literally it sounds like destroying the moon was Roshi's only hope for ending the transformation. What do you think?

Is killing Goku a moral option for him? It’s his prized pupil.

 

[SSJ2]

If it was between that and letting him kill thousands of spectators, Roshi would kill him without a doubt.

 

[Power Level Guy]

If it was between that and letting him kill thousands of spectators, Roshi would kill him without a doubt.

Yeah at a certain point he’s gotta be a hero and get it done.

Your logic is sound.

But the implication is there not only from others but Goku himself.

 

[SSJ2]

It's a weird one. Because obviously you can argue the intent of the author on this one, but logically, how the hell would Yamcha have any idea?

 

[Hector]

Yamcha seems to think the Kamehameha will kill Goku despite having no clue how powerful Buff Jackie was. Oozaru Goku also seems shocked by the blast as it went by him, but was Roshi actually stronger than Goku here?

After Roshi found out about the moon causing him to transform, this is what Roshi says:

View attachment 4929

If taken literally it sounds like destroying the moon was Roshi's only hope for ending the transformation. What do you think?

Roshi's buff KHH had a crazy amp.

 

[GSM123]

Roshi didn’t want to kill Goku. Maybe he would’ve done it if needed, but it wasn’t needed. This was the only way…[without hurting anyone].

But speaking of authorial intent, the authorial intent here was to raise suspense. Whether Roshi can kill Goku or not is irrelevant, what matters is that he looks like he will.

I thought the main reason we go with Buff Roshi > Oozaru Goku was because it was never contradited, so might as well roll with it.

 

[Animelover5487]

Roshi didn’t want to kill Goku. Maybe he would’ve done it if needed, but it wasn’t needed. This was the only way…[without hurting anyone].

But speaking of authorial intent, the authorial intent here was to raise suspense. Whether Roshi can kill Goku or not is irrelevant, what matters is that he looks like he will.

I thought the main reason we go with Buff Roshi > Oozaru Goku was because it was never contradited, so might as well roll with it.

Exactly if something in the story isn't contradicted then we may as well just go with it.

Roshi's KHH blew up a moon which logically even with an over ten times Amp isn't nearly enough for him to get to moon busting but it definitely makes him being able to kill Oozaru Goku more than make sense even if the feat itself is an outlier.

 

[Power Level Guy]

how the hell would Yamcha have any idea?

He witnessed blow up a mountain before.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think Buff Roshi's Kamehameha has a higher power than Oozaru Goku, I'm not sure Buff Roshi himself could beat Oozaru Goku in a head-on fight though.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think Buff Roshi's Kamehameha has a higher power than Oozaru Goku, I'm not sure Buff Roshi himself could beat Oozaru Goku in a head-on fight though.

Do you think Goku was weakened by the electricity?

 

[Papasmurf]

Do you think Goku was weakened by the electricity?

I honestly don't think it affected Oozaru Goku's performance. Goku doesn't seem to have struggled any more than Goten did to try and break Trunks' full nelson in the 25th.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I honestly don't think it affected Oozaru Goku's performance. Goku doesn't seem to have struggled any more than Goten did to try and break Trunks' full nelson in the 25th.

A full nelson won't kill you, this attack will.

 

[Papasmurf]

A full nelson won't kill you, this attack will.

Goten was nearing the point of suffocation from the full nelson and in Japanese (I just checked), Trunks says he'll die at this rate.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Goten was nearing the point of suffocation from the full nelson and in Japanese (I just checked), Trunks says he'll die at this rate.

A full nelson won't weaken you though. A full nelson doesn't suffocate either, but let's pretend it does for now lol.

Being choked doesn't actually weaken your power level. Being shocked by electricity probably would though I'd guess.

 

[Papasmurf]

A full nelson won't weaken you though. A full nelson doesn't suffocate either, but let's pretend it does for now lol.

Being choked doesn't actually weaken your power level. Being shocked by electricity probably would though I'd guess.

Suffocate is in English only. In Japanese Trunks says "Any more of this, and you'll die!". It definitely should've resulted in a loss of stamina, but Goten was fine afterwards. Goku also doesn't seem to show any pain or injury after reverting back from being Oozaru, his fatigue seems to mostly be a result of the transformation itself (which was shown to weaken even Saiyan arc Vegeta).

 

[Power Level Guy]

Suffocate is in English only. In Japanese Trunks says "Any more of this, and you'll die!".

You can't die from a full nelson lol

It definitely should've resulted in a loss of stamina, but Goten was fine afterwards.

Because chokeholds don't reduce stamina. That's not one of their effects. They are high risk maneuvers that either finish your opponent or end up depleting the offensive person's stamina. It works opposite to how you are thinking. Being shocked by electricity on the other hand, I mean, I don't know, but I'd assume you are being weakened. Unless I hear a counter argument to that.

Goku also doesn't seem to show any pain or injury after reverting back from being Oozaru, his fatigue seems to mostly be a result of the transformation itself (which was shown to weaken even Saiyan arc Vegeta).

Yeah, Saiyan Saga Vegeta is definitely weakened by losing his transformation. It's not as much as people think, but he probably around half of his power that he had up until that point. That's a nice chunk.

 

[Papasmurf]

You can't die from a full nelson lol

Tell that to AT not me lol.

Because chokeholds don't reduce stamina. That's not one of their effects. They are high risk maneuvers that either finish your opponent or end up depleting the offensive person's stamina. It works opposite to how you are thinking. Being shocked by electricity on the other hand, I mean, I don't know, but I'd assume you are being weakened. Unless I hear a counter argument to that.

Toriyama isn't a fighting expert. Goten was the only one shown to be struggling in that instance, so in his mind Goten should've been the one losing stamina.

Goku also got shocked by the pirate robot in the RRA arc and was no worse for wear. Though in that case, the exposure was shorter.

Yeah, Saiyan Saga Vegeta is definitely weakened by losing his transformation. It's not as much as people think, but he probably around half of his power that he had up until that point. That's a nice chunk.

Yeah and he didn't even lose consciousness from it while Goku and Gohan did. The lion's share of Goku's stamina loss was definitely from loss of the Oozaru transformation.