Was Goku at full power when he used 3x Kaioken?

[withheldforprivacy]

When Vegeta goes full power, Goku receives a charged headbutt. I think that took at least a little out if him.
Also, after FP Vegeta's assault, he was panting. I think it's not unreasonable to say that, when he used
Kaioken to dodge Vegeta's blast (the one that was easy to dodge on purpose), he had already fallen to like
7.5k, making his Kaioken like 15k. I think that sounds more reasonable than having him at 16k and considering
1.125x a big enough advantage for someone to have the luxury to toy with his opponent. Also, this allows us
to place 3x Kaioken Goku at 1.2x-1.25x over Getes, thus, nerfing the gaps later in the series.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The context of the story is that Goku can't beat Vegeta even with the Kaioken. As for the KK3x, he was at full power hence he was able to kick Vegeta's ass for a few minutes.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

Of course he was, just multiply Goku's PL from 8000+ x 3 .

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

Of course he was, just multiply Goku's PL from 8000+ x 3 .

I know but im just saying that goku most likely wasnt weakened and even if he was it wasn't by much

 

[freezamite]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

Of course he was, just multiply Goku's PL from 8000+ x 3 .

No, he wasn't. Even if Vegeta always attacked him softly enough he still was injured, which means that he lost strength. A kkx3 at 100% his strength would put him at nearly 25.000.
We know he surpassed the 21.000, but I don't think he did it by that much. And that's without considering that while using the KK his measured Ki wasn't the same as his real usable Ki, which should be lower.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

As if Toriyama follows that logic.

 

[freezamite]

As if Toriyama follows that logic.

Do I have to post the dozens and dozens (if not hundreds) of instances where it's absolutely obvious that the more injured a character is, the less strength he has?
Yes, Toriyama followed that logic, can you prove the opposite?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

As if Toriyama follows that logic.

Do I have to post the dozens and dozens (if not hundreds) of instances where it's absolutely obvious that the more injured a character is, the less strength he has?
Yes, Toriyama followed that logic, can you prove the opposite?

Don't! Leave it that way.

 

[freezamite]

As if Toriyama follows that logic.

Do I have to post the dozens and dozens (if not hundreds) of instances where it's absolutely obvious that the more injured a character is, the less strength he has?
Yes, Toriyama followed that logic, can you prove the opposite?

Don't! Leave it that way.

Then Goku clearly wasn't at his theoretical 100% when he activated the KKx3

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Hey, Freezamite. I was about to ask you that, but you beat me! So, how does that seem to you?

Goku (post Vegeta's headbutt and out of breath): 7.000
-3x kaioken: 21.000

Vegeta: 18.000

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Hey, Freezamite. I was about to ask you that, but you beat me! So, how does that seem to you?

Goku (post Vegeta's headbutt and out of breath): 7.000
-3x kaioken: 21.000

Vegeta: 18.000

That's impossible because bulma's scouter blew up when reading goku's PL.That means KKX3 goku is >22.000

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Yes. He wasn't weakened until after the fact.

 

[sei'taer]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

Scouters explode from the power level rising too fast, not from being a certain level. Zarbon's scouter explodes when vegeta's power level is rising, dodoria's works fine once he's at his max. Furiza's scouter explodes when vegeta is raising his power etc.

As for the topic, I seriously doubt goku was supposed to be injured enough there to make much difference. Bulma's scouter blew up when he was at 21,000 implying that it was still rising. He was also "over 8000" so having him weakened to 8000 probably makes more sense if he's weakened at all anyway.

 

[Papasmurf]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

Scouters explode from the power level rising too fast, not from being a certain level. Zarbon's scouter explodes when vegeta's power level is rising, dodoria's works fine once he's at his max. Furiza's scouter explodes when vegeta is raising his power etc.

Dodoria said that Zarbon's Scouter was the old model.

 

[freezamite]

Hey, Freezamite. I was about to ask you that, but you beat me! So, how does that seem to you?

Goku (post Vegeta's headbutt and out of breath): 7.000
-3x kaioken: 21.000

Vegeta: 18.000

That's impossible because bulma's scouter blew up when reading goku's PL.That means KKX3 goku is >22.000

Bulma's scouter blew up after Goku surpassed the 21.000 PL, so he could reach the 22.000 PL or he couldn't, but it's not certain.
Now, regarding the numbers, while I would put Goku a bit over 7.000, it's important to note the difference between Ki sensing, scouter readings and real strength available to fight.
Ki sensing is the most imprecise of the bunch, it depends on too many factors to be considered reliable for anything that isn't a direct comparative between two fighters (it depends on the power of the one sensing the power, on the attitude of the one's sensed, and even then the result is just an "approximation" that has to be contextualised and not a concrete number. On the other hand it provides other valuable information like who's the fighter -in case it's a known fighter- or if he has good intentions or not).

The scoutter it's by far the most precise device when it comes to power sensing. It not only senses the ki emitted, it also takes into account factors like the body mass of the fighter (that's why Goku and Piccolo's PL increased when they took off their heavy clothes, and why a scoutter would've noticed Trunk's -when he fought perfect Cell- weak-point even before the fight started), but there's a factor not even a scoutter could measure which is the pain and how it affects a given fighter.

Goku had between 21.000 and 22.000 units of measured strength when he activated the KKx3, but the KKx3 was a far too much for him (it punished his body far more than the KKx20 in Namek) and Goku was visibly in pain both when he activated the technique and after doing it, so his real effective power should have been between 18.000 and 19.000 in it's highest moment, and from then onwards in constant decrease although always above Vegeta's effective power (who was always below Goku's until Goku stopped the attack).

 

[withheldforprivacy]

So, you say USSJ Trunks actually has a lower PL than the Perfect Cell's suppression he fought?
Interesting, you know, i believed the same thing, before seeing him higher than Cell at all
PL lists, so i was affected by the others.

 

[freezamite]

So, you say USSJ Trunks actually has a lower PL than the Perfect Cell's suppression he fought?
Interesting, you know, i believed the same thing, before seeing him higher than Cell at all
PL lists, so i was affected by the others.

Yes, Trunks clearly increased his "power" at the cost of sacrificing his speed. From the perspective of a Ki perciever his new Ki was much stronger than before, but seen through a scoutter, that besides measuring one's ki factored other variables like his body mass as well, there wouldn't have been a difference at all (and since the transformation wasn't compensated like Goku said, it could even be possible for a scoutter to register Trunks transformation as a decrease in PL).

 

[sei'taer]

Bulma's scouter still exploded when goku went kkx3 which means that he was at least higher than 22,000

Scouters explode from the power level rising too fast, not from being a certain level. Zarbon's scouter explodes when vegeta's power level is rising, dodoria's works fine once he's at his max. Furiza's scouter explodes when vegeta is raising his power etc.

Dodoria said that Zarbon's Scouter was the old model.

It doesn't change that scouters have only exploded in the series when a power level is rising, not from merely reading a power level. Raditz explodes when bulma is reading goku powering up, Zarbons and kiwi's explode reading vegeta powering up rapidly, furiza's explodes when vegeta's power level is rising. Am I missing any?

You can't say everyone in the series is using an old model scouter except dodoria can you?

 

[Papasmurf]

I'm saying that the new model Scouters can at least go over 180,000, so Dodo's not exploding isn't a good indication of the argument you made.