Was Grade 2.5 faster than Grade 2 and consequently the SSJ?

[ahill1]

We saw that when Kuririn was getting Vegeta so Trunks could fight freely, Trunks still dodged a kick from Cell. So is that state Trunks was using to battle Cell and quickly exchange attacks a faster state then Grade 2?

 

[Papasmurf]

That's the warming up portion of the fight and if G3 was somehow more speedy compared to G2 there'd be no reason for Vegeta to discard it, so it's pretty meaningless imo. If you're going by warming ups then Freeza can't even beat Goku up with his legs, and we know he stomps Goku way harder than that after he goes 50%.

 

[SSJ2]

No. It was stated pretty blatantly that Grade 3 caused you to lose speed. Since Grade 2 was never implied to owe speed compared to SSJ, the answer is clear.

 

[ahill1]

That's the warming up portion of the fight and if G3 was somehow more speedy compared to G2 there'd be no reason for Vegeta to discard it, so it's pretty meaningless imo. If you're going by warming ups then Freeza can't even beat Goku up with his legs, and we know he stomps Goku way harder than that after he goes 50%.

True, but Trunks hadn't completed powering up yet... it seems he was in a transient state in between both buffed up states. So maybe SSJG2.5 > SSJG2 in terms of speed? It'd be nice if we had someone saying Cell was holding back, but all Cell said was that Trunks could fight more freely... he made no comment about himself warming up or going easier on Trunks.

 

[Papasmurf]

Cell knew Trunks was holding back and revealed he knew he was just stalling for Vegeta to be :Krillin'd, so I don't see it as meaning much. Vegeta didn't completely overwhelm base Goku in the Saiyan arc before he dished out KK, but we know Vegeta was in fact above Goku's 2x Kaioken.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Base
-power: 1
-speed: 1
-stamina: 1

SSJ
-power: 50
-speed: 50
-stamina: 0.75

Grade 2
-power: 100
-speed: 85
-stamina: 0.5

Grade 3
-power: 250
-speed: 150
-stamina: 0.25

MSSJ
-power: 50
-speed: 50
-stamina: 0.9

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Basically like Kenshi said.

 

[Papasmurf]

SSJG TRUNKS

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He was LSSJ in the anime too.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Kenshi already said it. There'd be no reason to abandon Grade 3 if its speed was already above the other forms. Trunks' good performance was during a warm up portion and when the fight actually starts, it becomes noted that he can't hit Cell and that Grade 3's lack of speed is its main weakness.

SSJ
-speed: 50
Grade 2
-speed: 85
Grade 3
-speed: 150

Cell and Goku explicitly call out the speed decrease as Grade 3's main problem, not its stamina.

 

[ahill1]

Kenshi already said it. There'd be no reason to abandon Grade 3 if its speed was already above the other forms. Trunks' good performance was during a warm up portion and when the fight actually starts, it becomes noted that he can't hit Cell and that Grade 3's lack of speed is its main weakness.

SSJ
-speed: 50
Grade 2
-speed: 85
Grade 3
-speed: 150

Cell and Goku explicitly call out the speed decrease as Grade 3's main problem, not its stamina.

What about the transient state? Trunks wasn't done powering up yet. Maybe the speed problems only manifested when he was at full grade 3?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

What about the transient state? Trunks wasn't done powering up yet. Maybe the speed problems only manifested when he was at full grade 3?

Cell was still warming up, so I don't think it's a major indicator. After all, the form wouldn't have been completely abandoned in favour of MSSJ if this transitional version still surpassed Grade 2 and had the speed to make it viable.

 

[ahill1]

What about the transient state? Trunks wasn't done powering up yet. Maybe the speed problems only manifested when he was at full grade 3?

Cell was still warming up, so I don't think it's a major indicator. After all, the form wouldn't have been completely abandoned in favour of MSSJ if this transitional version still surpassed Grade 2 and had the speed to make it viable.

Well, it'd be nice if we had a statement indicating that Cell was still warming up. We just assume it because it'd make the most sense.

While I agree with it, the same can be said for grade 2, whose power up was big enough for Piccolo to state in separate panels "his chi is growing and growing" and the speed problems didn't seem to get a statement regarding this G2 state. Still, it was never used anymore once they got ahold of the SSJ. It was stupid as well.

 

[Papasmurf]

Trunks isn't using his full power and was stalling to get Vegeta to escape and Cell knew this. Cell also stated as Trunks went full power that he can finally test out his perfect power, which obviously means he doesn't even consider what they did up to that point a fight.

 

[ahill1]

Trunks isn't using his full power and was stalling to get Vegeta to escape and Cell knew this. Cell also stated as Trunks went full power that he can finally test out his perfect power, which obviously means he doesn't even consider what they did up to that point a fight.

Good catch on Cell saying he can finally test his perfect form. Didn't account for that statement.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Grade 2.5?

 

[ahill1]

Grade 2.5?

That's what I'm calling it, since Trunks wasn't done powering up yet. He also seems bulkier when he completes the transformation.

 

[SIAD]

I have always seen the SSJ Grade 2 as the maximum power that does not slow down. From a SSJ Grade 2.1, start slowly removing your speed. For example:

SSJ (Power and Speed) = 100

SSJ Grade 2 (Power) = 200
(Speed) = 200

SSJ Grade 2.5 (Power) = 400
(Speed) = 100

SSJ Grade 3 (Power) = 800
(Speed) = 50.

  I think Cell decreased his speed only against Future Trunks SSJ Grades 2.5 and SSJ Grade 3.