What do you think of Saint-Seiya?

[Fantastische Hure]

I have never watched this, so...

 

[SSJ2]

I think it's quite saintly.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What a pun

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Saint Seiya's an OK series. As someone who's very interested in Greek Mythology, it was a series I was drawn to, though the writing can be anywhere from average to bad due to a lot of the plot twists being over the top and almost every fight being won through some sort of resolve boost. However, the explanation behind it's power system of Cosmo works makes the latter far more excusable than in most Shonen series. What isn't excusable is that each arc is basically the same damsel in distress rescue arc being repeated 3 times.
The characters are alright. Nothing too deep or well developed, but the Bronze and Gold Saints at least has a clearly defined personality and is consistent throughout (except maybe Shun flip-flopping constantly with his Sanctuary Arc development). Too bad most of the villains in the Poseidon and Hades Arcs are generic.
It's also worth noting in regard to characters that it gets some extra appeal in how it utilises it's climactic battle. Whilst Seiya will always land a damaging attack on the antagonist and 2/3 times KO them before they get back up, he never truly defeats them like in most Shonen series, which is pretty interesting.

What sets it apart from other generic Shonen are two things. One is the Sanctuary Arc, whilst being pretty generic in how it's fights played out and a huge amount of plot armouring, did a good job with character interactions and drama. The second good aspect is being far more excusable as rule of cool, with the series never trying to be more than it is and thereby be pretentious, or never ripping off other works like it's copycat Bleach did (apart from maybe Seiya's manga exclusive conversation with Miko being pretty similar to one of Yabuki Joe's most famous lines). This rule of cool comes from the art with the great amount of detail within each armour, the over the top attacks and abilities, the character designs brimming with 80s charm and the Greek mythology gimmick being played very well within it's lore. Anime's ost is also great. It also helps that it was one of the first series to utilise a few Shonen tropes such as a structure that allowed all the main cast to have their spotlight in a somewhat team battle formula, which had only previously been done with Kinnikuman and Ring Ni Kakero, which makes it far more tolerable than the vast amount of Shonen series copying it today.

If I had to give it a score, about a 5.5 - 6/10. Comparing it to other Shonen series of it's time, it wasn't quite as good as the first parts of Dragon Ball and Hokuto no Ken, nor Part 2 of JoJo, but still better than DBZ and about as good as the other Shonen series of the time like City Hunter.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What makes Fist of the North-Star so good?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

What makes Fist of the North-Star so good?

- Very little plot armour for most of it's cast, unlike other series that will keep characters around long after they've become irrelevant.
- Actual consequences on the plot from each battle in the manga, thereby making very few seem unnecessary.
- A lot more of a focus on martial arts skill in battles and not just raw power compared to most Shonen.
- Manga's art is top tier towards the end of Part 1/entirety of Part 2.
- Most characters feel proactive, with both it's protagonist and antagonist growing from their journeys and having their actions shape the world.
- Manly badassery
- Has a primarily adult cast (other than Bat and Lin), making the characters all at least somewhat more mature than the teenage douches and edgelords in most Shonen.
- Very few actual flaws to it's first part. Only flaws I can pick out are the Tenryu Kokyu Ho's ability being seemingly retconned, the plot point of Mamiya looking like Yuria being retconned, Kenshiro's resolve boost against Raoh and Mamiya getting saved from a contrivance at the end of the Rei Arc. Whilst these seem like notable flaws, this is from 16 volumes' worth of material, so not really that many.

Overall, whilst it wasn't the most deep or expansive series, it was one of the best in what it was and didn't try to be more than a somewhat dark action/adventure with over the top manliness, thus allowing it to monopolise far more on it's strengths than create weaknesses by jumping the shark as most battle Shonen eventually do...until Part 2. Just ignore that disservice to the first 136 chapters/first anime series entirely.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

What's wrong with part 2?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

DragonBall really started a lot of the Shōnen troupes, like a young hero. I don't know whether there was a Shōnen series before that had a child or a teenager as the main hero (other than Captain-Tsubasa, but that's about football so yeah).

What series from its time outdid Saint-Seiya in-terms of quality? What's the best saga? I remember hearing a DragonBall producer once call the Saint-Seiya manga average, l0l.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

What's wrong with part 2?

Retcons a whole lot of information from the first part (eg. Toki and Raoh being from Shura when Toki had previously shown a place he claimed he was born.), asspull power ups such as Kenshiro becoming a Gary Stu Karate Jesus just be touching a statue and previous characters acting out of character (eg. flashback showing Raoh having some respect for Kenshiro prior to the events of Part 1, when it's established he viewed Ken as trash prior to their fight in Mamiya's village).
Also, a lot of uncreativity with Kaioh just being Souther in Raoh's body and Shachi not having much to set him apart as a character from someone such as say, Rei.

DragonBall really started a lot of the Shōnen troupes, like a young hero. I don't know whether there was a Shōnen series before that had a child or a teenager as the main hero (other than Captain-Tsubasa, but that's about football so yeah).

Astro Boy and GeGeGe no Kitaro were the first to have child protagonists for a Shonen. Even if looking strictly at battle Shonen, Ring Ni Kakero (Saint Seiya's mangaka's first major work) had a main cast in their early to mid teens.

What series from its time outdid Saint-Seiya in-terms of quality? What's the best saga? I remember hearing a DragonBall producer once call the Saint-Seiya manga average, l0l.

Already mentioned the series from it's time I consider better from that era; Part 1 DB, Part 1 HnK and Part 2 JoJo (Maybe Part 3 as well, but minimally so at best). I'd say City Hunter and Space Adventure Cobra are about as good as Saint Seiya. This is still when just limiting it to Shonen series of the time, seeing as how I'd be a while if otherwise.

Best arc of Saint Seiya was easily the Sanctuary Arc (ie. the first 13 volumes/73 episodes), seeing as how it's plot twists were decent, it's character interactions and the build up to some fights were good and unlike the two arcs following it, it wasn't copying it's own plot. Still only worth about a 6/10, though still better than the Poseidon Arc and Hades Arc.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What's so OK about City-Hunter?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

What's so OK about City-Hunter?

It was a pretty funny comedy with a likeable cast, with Ryo being one of the best executions of the goofy yet badass protagonist archetype. Doesn't have much going for it beyond that, given it gains a typical plot structure of being episodic and having whatever new female character it introduces usually falling for Ryo only for things to go nowhere, but the execution of the comedy and creativity of situations in the earlier events make at least first 25 volumes or first 3 anime series worth viewing.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

And Akira Kamiya.