Why did Burter think he was the fastest in the universe?

[Jeff Styles]

I mean, Ginyu's power level is about 3x more than him and Freeza's is about 13x. Usually a higher power level mean the individual is faster than one with a lower power level.

If you think about it, Guldo can stop time, so technically that make him faster than him.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He's probably the fastest after Ginyu and Freeza but then again, I have no idea what AT was trying to tell us here.

 

[Void]

His flight speed could be better than Ginyu's considering Goku (90,000) was faster than Ginyu (120,000).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Burta is faster than Ginyu when it comes to flight speed, but is slower on combat speed. Freeza outclasses both in both flight and combat speed.

 

[Papasmurf]

Why was Ginyu even surprised by Goku outspeeding him when Galu two shotted Butter? It only stands to reason he'd be faster if Ginyu is supposedly slower than his minion lel.

 

[Void]

Just trying to give credence to Butta's supposed position atop the flight speed pecking order.

 

[Animelover5487]

Why was Ginyu even surprised by Goku outspeeding him when Galu two shotted Butter? It only stands to reason he'd be faster if Ginyu is supposedly slower than his minion lel.

Ginyu wasn't exactly there to watch how Goku defeated the other Ginyus. Ginyu could have thought Burter was faster, Goku was just so much more powerful that Burter's superior speed didn't make a difference.

 

[sei'taer]

Because saying he was the 3rd fastest in the universe wasn't as cool

 

[Papasmurf]

Why was Ginyu even surprised by Goku outspeeding him when Galu two shotted Butter? It only stands to reason he'd be faster if Ginyu is supposedly slower than his minion lel.

Ginyu wasn't exactly there to watch how Goku defeated the other Ginyus. Ginyu could have thought Burter was faster, Goku was just so much more powerful that Burter's superior speed didn't make a difference.

Seems pretty stupid nonetheless since he estimated Goku's power to be 60k even while underestimating him and later revised it to 85k, of which Butta is like half.

 

[The_Authority]

Take Freeza out of the equation. I'm willing to bet that not one of Freeza's subordinates has ever seen anything out of Freeza and were driven by reputation and fear. If anything, only Zarbon and Dodoria saw an example of Freeza's power when he destroyed planet Vegeta. Other than that, just word-of-mouth, I believe. So, nobody really knew anything about Freeza's fighting abilities, speed, power, etc.

As far as Butta vs. Ginyu, power does not necessarily mean speed. I suppose it's possible to be faster than someone, but weaker than them. Even though in DB, flight is determined by Ki output, apparently it's not. Ginyu was there since the beginning and we always knew that Ginyu was stronger, so if Butta says he's faster, he's gotta be faster than he thinks Ginyu is. I suppose that all-out Ginyu is proven to be a lot faster, but again, Butta might not have ever seen Ginyu fully unleash that. Thus, the fact that Butta could think that he was faster than Ginyu while knowing that he was weaker, I guess it's possible in the DB World to be faster and yet weaker.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It's also similar to Goku being no.1 against Pure Book and yet still weaker than Gohan and Gotenks.

 

[The_Authority]

Goku's number one to Vegeta. Let's not overlook that. Vegeta didn't have any idea of what Gotenks nor Gohan did. That, plus in that fight, Goku was the only one that could win.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Goku's number one to Vegeta. Let's not overlook that. Vegeta didn't have any idea of what Gotenks nor Gohan did. That, plus in that fight, Goku was the only one that could win.

Not really since Vegeta can tell the difference between Buuhan and Gohan is Super Buu which mean that power is strong and yet he made a statement that Goku is still no.1 but then Goku thought that with Gohan and Gotenks they can beat Pure Boo no problem.

I'm just saying that both contradicts that's all.

 

[freezamite]

Fastest as in "fastest with a given level of power". In DB the power level is the average of all stats, but then you can find fighters with similar levels of power being worlds apart in concrete aspects of their strength.
An extreme example of that is the Oozaru transformation: a huge increase in power that's not reflected in the speed of the fighter (if it's not even diminished compared to his actual strength).

 

[The_Authority]

Goku's number one to Vegeta. Let's not overlook that. Vegeta didn't have any idea of what Gotenks nor Gohan did. That, plus in that fight, Goku was the only one that could win.

Not really since Vegeta can tell the difference between Buuhan and Gohan is Super Buu which mean that power is strong and yet he made a statement that Goku is still no.1 but then Goku thought that with Gohan and Gotenks they can beat Pure Boo no problem.

I'm just saying that both contradicts that's all.

Honestly, I'm just busting balls lol But that's DB in a nutshell, isn't it? Flying by the seat of its pants. "A is stronger than B! But C? C is the strongest of them all! But wait! Something just happened and now B is stronger than C? I accept this!"

 

[freezamite]

Goku's number one to Vegeta. Let's not overlook that. Vegeta didn't have any idea of what Gotenks nor Gohan did. That, plus in that fight, Goku was the only one that could win.

Not really since Vegeta can tell the difference between Buuhan and Gohan is Super Buu which mean that power is strong and yet he made a statement that Goku is still no.1 but then Goku thought that with Gohan and Gotenks they can beat Pure Boo no problem.

I'm just saying that both contradicts that's all.

Honestly, I'm just busting balls lol But that's DB in a nutshell, isn't it? Flying by the seat of its pants. "A is stronger than B! But C? C is the strongest of them all! But wait! Something just happened and now B is stronger than C? I accept this!"

That in fact never happens in the manga except for the rage boosts.
And Vegeta admitting Goku is the number 1 fighter and not even considering Gohan in the mix (I don't even think he saw how strong Gohan had become) is normal, Gohan never liked to fight and he only got that powerful through a ritual.

 

[The_Authority]

Not really since Vegeta can tell the difference between Buuhan and Gohan is Super Buu which mean that power is strong and yet he made a statement that Goku is still no.1 but then Goku thought that with Gohan and Gotenks they can beat Pure Boo no problem.

I'm just saying that both contradicts that's all.

Honestly, I'm just busting balls lol But that's DB in a nutshell, isn't it? Flying by the seat of its pants. "A is stronger than B! But C? C is the strongest of them all! But wait! Something just happened and now B is stronger than C? I accept this!"

That in fact never happens in the manga except for the rage boosts.
And Vegeta admitting Goku is the number 1 fighter and not even considering Gohan in the mix (I don't even think he saw how strong Gohan had become) is normal, Gohan never liked to fight and he only got that powerful through a ritual.

Never happens?

Any time the protagonist is losing, suddenly something happens -- usually a cop-out like drinking water or training for a minuscule amount of time or a transformation or some sort of power boost out of nowhere -- where suddenly the protagonist overshadows the villain by a mile. Then, suddenly, the villain does something -- usually a cop-out like "Hey, I wasn't full power!" -- and now the villain is on-par with the protagonist, and then the clash happens, and the protagonist overcomes. This is the formula (at least partly) for every single big Dragon Ball Z battle.

Goku's power is insignificant. Vegeta and Nappa overshadow him. Goku gets an insane, like crazy power-up from not doing much, really. Comes back, destroys Nappa, and off to fight Vegeta. Goku's losing, BUT WAIT! He has the Kaio-ken in his arsenal, so he overcomes Vegeta. Vegeta, though, pulls the giant monkey transformation out of nowhere and overshadows Goku. Yes, Goku himself doesn't overcome Vegeta, but there is some cop-out overcoming of the villain when Gohan (out of nowhere) becomes a giant ape and you know the rest.

Vegeta's entire run-through of Freeza's men on Namek was akin to this. Vegeta was weaker, but oh my goodness, was now magically stronger. Even to go so far as to be beaten by Zarbon, only to heal up and overshadow him. How? This magical thing where he gets a power-up from being nearly dead. How convenient. And he even ends up killing Jheese somehow. How? Nobody knows. All we can do is lean on that magical and convenient explanation of "Well, the Zenkais!"

Training for the cyborgs? Heh. The entire Room of Spirit and Time thing is just convenience to the max. Vegeta trained for three years, didn't accomplish much. Goes to train for one year's time in the Room of Spirit and Time? Whoo! What a difference! But wait! Vegeta could destroy Cell like nothing, but then suddenly something happens and Cell is perfect! He's able to destroy Vegeta without any trouble! Trunks? Same exact deal.

Cell Games? Goku and Cell are going head-to-head. Ta-da, it's Gohan's turn! Gohan is no match for Cell! But wait! Through the magical powers of Super Saiyan 2, Gohan can now destroy Cell like nothing! But wait! No, he can't! Cell still has a magical out-of-nowhere power-up that can give Gohan a run for his money! But somehow, in the end, Gohan overcomes! Yay.

Coming up next, we have the Boo arc -- the arc where everyone stopped even caring. Boo goes through a bunch of transformations where his power goes up and down depending on plot. We have Gotenks that can beat one version of Boo, but not another version of Boo, but someone weaker than Gohan can beat Boo because Boo conveniently shrinks in power. This entire arc is all over the place with this.

So yeah, to me, power and speed and anything else you want, is pure convenience and plot-based. Trunks is all burly and strong and implied that he's strong enough to take out Cell. But wait! Cell's faster! Okay... makes sense. But then, Cell can power up to that level and is fast. Okay. Plot-based stuff.

So, that's why I go back to it. If Butta thought that he was the "fastest," then I guess he really thought he was and in the DB World, speed does not correlate to power. I don't know what to say.

Damn, sorry for the super long post.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I mean, Ginyu's power level is about 3x more than him and Freeza's is about 13x. Usually a higher power level mean the individual is faster than one with a lower power level.

If you think about it, Guldo can stop time, so technically that make him faster than him.

He obviously meant it in a different way. Which explains why he has no girlfriend.

 

[freezamite]

Never happens?

Any time the protagonist is losing, suddenly something happens -- usually a cop-out like drinking water or training for a minuscule amount of time or a transformation or some sort of power boost out of nowhere -- where suddenly the protagonist overshadows the villain by a mile. Then, suddenly, the villain does something -- usually a cop-out like "Hey, I wasn't full power!" -- and now the villain is on-par with the protagonist, and then the clash happens, and the protagonist overcomes. This is the formula (at least partly) for every single big Dragon Ball Z battle.

That in fact is not true. Let's analyse each DBZ battle:
vs Raditz: Goku and Piccolo are completely dominated by Raditz. The only rageboost is the one from Gohan.
vs Nappa: Gohan has a rage boost, but it's not decisive nor helps to turn the tides of the battle. In other words, it's not comparable to what you describe.
vs Vegeta: Goku weakens after the KKx4. From there, it's all about Krilin, Gohan and Yajirobee decimating Vegeta with what they got (and Goku's Genkidama). Not a single power up that changed the tides of the fight.

At Namek, we have:
Vegeta vs Kiwi: Vegeta powered up before arriving at Namek, there wasn't a single power up in that fight.
Vegeta vs Dodoria: Same as before, not a single power up.
Vegeta vs Zarbon: Zarbon transformed and Vegeta lost. I wouldn't say Zarbon's transformation is part of that formula since that's how the character was conceived and Vegeta couldn't turn the tables again.
vs Ginyu force: Guildo is killed by a cheap shot from Vegeta. Reecome beat Vegeta and then him and Burter were beaten by Goku. When Ginyu appeared even the KKx2 was enough to clearly overpower him, so no magic power boost out of nowhere again.

vs Freezer:
No power ups in his 4th form.
A rageboost for Gohan vs his 3rd form and another one vs his 2nd form, but they weren't decisive rage boosts by any means and the situation was resolved through other means.

Goku vs Freezer had a rage boost, the first and only rage boost for a character that's not Gohan that happened in a fight and helped to resolve the situation.
The second of 3 power boosts in a fight that really affected the battle where it happened in all of DBZ.

Androids:
vs 19: No power boosts of any kind. In fact, Goku is constantly losing energy because of the disease and ends loosing.
vs 19 2.0: Vegeta decimates him.
vs 20: No power boosts again, Piccolo dominates.
vs 18: Again, no power boosts of any kind. Vegeta and 18 start more or less equally and then 18's unlimited stamina gives her a decisive victory.
vs Cell: No power boosts as well. Piccolo dominates.
vs 17: Again, no power boosts that turned the battle. Piccolo started being a bit above 17 but it wasn't enough to overcome the android's unlimited stamina.
vs Cell 2.0: Cell dominates, no power boosts of any kind.
vs 16: An even fight but 16s unlimited energy would've given him the victory. Cell had to absorb 17 as a means to surpass 16, but that's not that "magic power up" you were speaking of. We already knew from dozens of chapters ago that Cell would power up if he managed to absorb 17.

And seriously, besides Gohan vs Perfect Cell there's not a single "bullshit out of nowere power up" in the middle of any fight.

Goku's power is insignificant. Vegeta and Nappa overshadow him. Goku gets an insane, like crazy power-up from not doing much, really. Comes back, destroys Nappa, and off to fight Vegeta. Goku's losing, BUT WAIT! He has the Kaio-ken in his arsenal, so he overcomes Vegeta. Vegeta, though, pulls the giant monkey transformation out of nowhere and overshadows Goku. Yes, Goku himself doesn't overcome Vegeta, but there is some cop-out overcoming of the villain when Gohan (out of nowhere) becomes a giant ape and you know the rest.

Look, this is not what you described. I mean, you saying "Goku shouldn't have goten as strong as he did only by training with kaito" is just your opinion, not bad writting as you implied.
We knew about the KK even before Goku started to fight Nappa, so no, it's not a "Goku is overshadowed but suddenly gets a magical technique" because we knew Goku could use the KK before he even started to fight.

Look, what you described was One Piece. It's in One Piece where drinking water fills your stamina, or where the concept of losing stamina isn't even considered and things goes just like the author wants them to go.
And this doesn't happen in DB except for the rage boosts.

Vegeta's entire run-through of Freeza's men on Namek was akin to this. Vegeta was weaker, but oh my goodness, was now magically stronger.
Even to go so far as to be beaten by Zarbon, only to heal up and overshadow him. How? This magical thing where he gets a power-up from being nearly dead. How convenient. And he even ends up killing Jheese somehow. How? Nobody knows. All we can do is lean on that magical and convenient explanation of "Well, the Zenkais!"

The zenkai power was introduced before Vegeta arrived at Namek... so even if it was convenient, it wasn't something the author invented just for the sake of beating Zarbon.
Those are rules that the author established far before a situation that needed them appeared, or in other words, Zarbon was as strong as he was because Toriyama already had given himself a tool for Vegeta to surpass him.

That has nothing to do with being coherent when designing the fights. And DB fights are the most accurate of any shounen I've ever read.