Why do people assume Piccolo sent the boys into the Rosat immediately?

[kriss-]

This seems completely absurd to me. When Super Boo initially came into the picture Piccolo does not immediately send them into the Rosat, he does not actually do this until Majin Boo kills all the humans on Earth -which it in itself, was an attempt to stall Boo to give the boys the preparation they required for battle. Furthermore, because Super Boo was only going to wait until the sand finished dropping through the hour glass, he had no choice but to use it as a final resort. Nothing implies that he had the intention of doing so just because Super Boo came into the picture, this is an assumption and hyperbole by desperate fans trying to power-up Super Boo.

 

[SSJ2]

Because he thought he could stall Boo and the extra 2 minutes wouldn't matter.

 

[kriss-]

You missed the point of the OP entirely.

 

[Tapion]

When Super Buu appears for the first time, Piccolo doesn't send them immediately because there was no need to do that. Super Buu was most likely STILL weaker than the expected power of SSj Gotenks(pre).

 

[kriss-]

When Super Buu appears for the first time, Piccolo doesn't send them immediately because there was no need to do that. Super Buu was still weaker than SSj Gotenks(pre). Only when Super Buu arrives in the lookout that they finally notice how they misjudged Buu.

That's incorrect.

Piccolo already knew that Gotenks was boned once he performed his temporary power-burst. But he did not send him in immediately, he only did so once Super Boo revealed that he can sense Chi and he discovered the location of the look-out.

 

[SSJ2]

No, he was not. Boo didn't power up on the lookout. Piccolo thought that he could send Boo back to earth to kill everyone as he had done as Fat Boo, which would take likely at least a day. Piccolo literally says that fusion was not enough, so SSJ Gotenks pre was never in the same realm as initial Evil Boo.

 

[Tapion]

When Super Buu appears for the first time, Piccolo doesn't send them immediately because there was no need to do that. Super Buu was still weaker than SSj Gotenks(pre). Only when Super Buu arrives in the lookout that they finally notice how they misjudged Buu.

That's incorrect.

Piccolo already knew that Gotenks was boned once he performed his temporary power-burst. But he did not send him in immediately, he only did so once Super Boo revealed that he can sense Chi and he discovered the location of the look-out.

That's your assumption. The only time that Piccolo expresses some doubt BEFORE he arrives in the lookout is when he says "That'd be nice, but.." and that's nowhere near saying "They absolutely can't win, no doubt about it"

No, he was not. Boo didn't power up on the lookout. Piccolo thought that he could send Boo back to earth to kill everyone as he had done as Fat Boo, which would take likely at least a day. Piccolo literally says that fusion was not enough, so SSJ Gotenks pre was never in the same realm as initial Evil Boo.

You're making quite the assumption there when you say that he didn't power up on the lookout. What Piccolo says when Super Buu is formed(Viz)

Spoiler

Here we see clearly that Piccolo still had some faith in Gotenks. You'll probably counter with: "He says that he HOPED so" however, hope can't be placed in a flat-out lie. When he KNEW that Gotenks was weaker, he outright said it, no matter what happened. He said it with Base Gotenks, and said it with SSj Gotenks(pre) when Supes arrived in the lookout.

 

[SSJ2]

I've always seen it as: Fat Boo < SSJ Gotenks Pre < Initial Evil Boo = Base Gotenks Post

Boo never powers up after forming, so we should assume the power he initially had is the same as when he appeared on the lookout. Piccolo tried getting Boo to fly away to give the boys a day to get stronger, yet he stayed. Also, it was a shock that Boo could sense ki, and he literally appeared immediately on the lookout, so there was no time to send the boys to the rosat.

 

[kriss-]

No, he was not. Boo didn't power up on the lookout. Piccolo thought that he could send Boo back to earth to kill everyone as he had done as Fat Boo, which would take likely at least a day. Piccolo literally says that fusion was not enough, so SSJ Gotenks pre was never in the same realm as initial Evil Boo.

Actually, there is a huge difference between Initial Super Boo and the powered up version. Super Boo's superficial power is on the same level of Innocent Boo -which is why other notable Chi sensors do not notice a difference in him, and this is the level of power that he used to fight Gotenks SSj Post with. Whereas Super Boo's (Full Power) is the degree of power that he displayed when he tested his new abilities, escape the Rosat and what he used to fight Gotenks SSj3 Post with.

Spoiler

This is when Piccolo knows that Gotenks is boned. However, this degree of power wasn't and isn't what he remained at and/or fought Gotenks SSj Post with because:

Other notable Chi sensors do not notice a difference -and don't notice him until its too late because there is nothing different to notice:

Spoiler

And Boo is shown to be examining himself, meaning it was just a test to test his new abilities:

Spoiler

That's your assumption. The only time that Piccolo expresses some doubt BEFORE he arrives in the lookout is when he says "That'd be nice, but.." and that's nowhere near saying "They absolutely can't win, no doubt about it"

I have some very unkind words for you, but I will refrain from saying them.

Your style of debating is really ....


you

 

[Tapion]

I've always seen it as: Fat Boo < SSJ Gotenks Pre < Initial Evil Boo = Base Gotenks Post

Boo never powers up after forming, so we should assume the power he initially had is the same as when he appeared on the lookout. Piccolo tried getting Boo to fly away to give the boys a day to get stronger, yet he stayed. Also, it was a shock that Boo could sense ki, and he literally appeared immediately on the lookout, so there was no time to send the boys to the rosat.

Actually, the Daizenshuu states that Pure Evil Buu immediately powered up after he absorbed Good Buu. Which definitively back my point up. Even Piccolo expressed slight doubt to Gotenks's chances(slight, because i know some may call me hypocrite because of this), which also definitively implies a power-up.

EDIT: Goku's reaction in Viz version is another one that tell us that Buu powered up.

Spoiler

1. Daizenshuu states that Super Buu powered up.
2. Piccolo expressing slight doubt implies a power-up.
3. Goku's reaction to Buu's new chi implies a power-up.
4. The context of the scene implies a power-up.

i have some very unkind words for you, but I will refrain from saying them.

Your style of debating is really ....


you

I'll try to pretend that i care about y'r opinion.

 

[SSJ2]

Let's get the correct translations in here:

hapter: 486 (DBZ 292), P2.2-6
Context: after Boo transforms into evil Boo
Piccolo: “…Have you noticed? …This change in Majin Boo’s ki…[ ] …He’s changed…All due to some idiotic Earthlings…He’s become pure evil, and his body has become more suited toward battle…Th-this…this…”
Kuririn: “Wha…What?...D-don’t tell me you’re saying this is bad!? …It’s al-alright! We’ve got the squirts’ Fusion! Goku said that right? That Fusion was the strongest…!”
Dende: “…”
Piccolo: “…That’d be nice, but…”

Piccolo already is doubting Gotenks here. Krillin clearly doesn't understand what has gone on, but Piccolo has already realized that Gotenks doesn't have a shot with fusion.

Chapter: 486 (DBZ 292), P3.1
Goku: “…This is Majin Boo, right? This ki…what is it?...”
Note: mostly I wanted to point out that Goku and co. can sense evil Boo from the Kaioshin Realm.

Boo is felt from the Kaioshin world when he flares his aura.

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

This goes along with the earlier point. Piccolo knew from the start that Gotenks was no match, whereas Krillin and the like still can't figure it out. Boo doesn't power up until he enters the RoSaT, as Gotenks was confident that he could match Boo in Base, and Piccolo was even shocked by how far they had come.

 

[Tapion]

Let's get the correct translations in here:

Actually, the version that i used was Viz, and i think that everyone knows that they are reliable too.

Piccolo already is doubting Gotenks here. Krillin clearly doesn't understand what has gone on, but Piccolo has already realized that Gotenks doesn't have a shot with fusion.

In the statement presented, Piccolo expresses slight doubt, but it's nowhere near the doubt presented later when Super Buu arrives in the lookout.

Boo is felt from the Kaioshin world when he flares his aura.

I know.

This goes along with the earlier point. Piccolo knew from the start that Gotenks was no match, whereas Krillin and the like still can't figure it out. Boo doesn't power up until he enters the RoSaT, as Gotenks was confident that he could match Boo in Base, and Piccolo was even shocked by how far they had come.

Piccolo's statement here only back my point up. He only had slight doubt when Super Buu was formed, but when he arrived in the lookout, Piccolo was completely sure that Gotenks didn't stand a chance.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm aware you used Viz. Viz translations are not the premier translation to use in strength debates. Herms directly translated the manga word for word, so it is more accurate for our purposes.

I don't see that as slight doubt. Piccolo literally tells Krillin that he is thinking of a dream world where Gotenks has a chance. "That would be nice" is literally saying, "I wish, but that isn't the case".

Ok, so what is the disagreement? I don't think Boo powered up, I just think he surfaced his ki.

Again, okay. I don't see what we re arguing about. Piccolo confirms his doubts when Boo arrives, what is the issue here?

 

[kriss-]

Super Boo is never implied to power-up when he arrives on the look-out, that is a complete ass-pull from you. Piccolo's statements are obviously regarding where Super Boo was previously at during his temporary power-burst and not necessarily his superficial power.

But what's the point in arguing with you?

(The only reason I dislike what you have to say at times is because it completely DEVIATES from the point of the thread)

 

[Tapion]

I'm aware you used Viz. Viz translations are not the premier translation to use in strength debates. Herms directly translated the manga word for word, so it is more accurate for our purposes.

But when Herms's translations are still inconclusive to what is being debated, then Viz is the Option B since it is the official translation and is probably the 2nd most accurate translation.

I don't see that as slight doubt. Piccolo literally tells Krillin that he is thinking of a dream world where Gotenks has a chance. "That would be nice" is literally saying, "I wish, but that isn't the case".

Where Piccolo literally tells Krillin that?
Even if we assume that Super Buu(initial) > SSj Gotenks(pre) then it's certainly not by much considering that Piccolo didn't flat-out state so, neither did anyone. As i pointed out before, when Gotenks was much weaker Piccolo basically yelled that.

Piccolo yelled that Base Gotenks stood absolutely no chance against Fat Buu.

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P11.4-5
Context: after Piccolo says to try Fusion again, as Super Saiyans
Gotenks: “Hehhehheh…Aren’t you underestimating me? Like this, I’m more than enough to defeat Majin Boo.”
Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Piccolo yelled later that Super Saiyan Gotenks stood absolutely no chance against Super Buu(at the lookout)

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

But when Super Buu(initial) appeared, Piccolo's doubts weren't nearly as big as the ones above.

I admit that Super Buu(initial) > SSj Gotenks(pre) is definitively a possibility, but still it's not undeniable fact imo.

Ok, so what is the disagreement? I don't think Boo powered up, I just think he surfaced his ki

What do you mean with "disagreement"? Are you talking about Piccolo's first statement about Gotenks vs. Super Buu and Piccolo's second statement?

Again, okay. I don't see what we re arguing about. Piccolo confirms his doubts when Boo arrives, what is the issue here?

It's not a "issue" but it is interesting to notice, Piccolo's first doubts weren't nearly as big as the final ones.

 

[kriss-]

Here is Piccolo believing that Super Boo cannot be a whole lot stronger than Gotenks SSj Pre:

 

[sei'taer]

The RoSaT was always a last resort. Sacrificing every human on earth was the option before using the time chamber. When buu shows that he can do so instantly piccolo has to use the chamber and play for time. Even then he still had the further last resort of blowing up the doorway.

The amount of time it would have taken fat buu to kill all the humans probably isn't all that different to the time they had to train.

 

[Tapion]

Nothing is stated in the scan posted above. Your nonsensical bias is impressive.

 

[SSJ2]

@Tapion, just gonna reply like this because I'm too lazy to quote.

How is it inconclusive? I see all of the info one needs in the strength checker.

It's logical. If Piccolo says "That would be nice, but..." and just cuts off his sentence, it is very clear what he's thinking. In a perfect world, fusion would still be viable, but now it is not.

I think you're looking at it differently (which isn't bad, I'll just explain my perspective). In that moment in time, it isn't as big of an issue as Piccolo doesn't know that Boo is capable of ki sensing, and will appear on the lookout in the next minute. There is no need for him to sound desperate yet, as there is still time to solve the issue. Yet when Boo lands on the lookout, everything gets desperate, and Piccolo has to assert the fact that Gotenks is useless once again to Krillin. It isn't Gotenks' likelihood of winning that changes, it is the desperation.

I meant what are we even disagreeing about with that point lol.

 

[ahill1]

I think the "That would be nice, but..." was just a way to say that SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat) was no longer able to deal with Boo. Notice that even when Super Boo killed the humans in Kami's place, Kuririn was still wondering why cannot the boys fight Super Boo without going to the Rosat, that is, I believe the Rosat was not an option until Super Boo formed.