Why it makes more sense for SSJ3 Goku ~ SSJ3 Gotenks

Hector

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I'm not necessarily trying to prove that it's the case. I'm just saying that, since the Buu Saga will always have contradictions no matter how you view the power scaling, it's better from a writing point of view to see it this way.

1. From Goku's statements about the fusion between Goten and Trunks, we can deduce he just expected that a warrior stronger than him would come out of it somehow. He didn't know exactly how that would happen, he just hoped it.
Who was that warrior? Base/SSJ Gotenks (both pre and post ROSAT) served just gag purposes. Obviously they were not intended by the story to be those who would fulfill Goku's hopes.

2. When Goku saw SSJ3 Gotenks, he was impressed at how the children reached a level of power it took him years to attain. Of course, one can argue that he was talking about the transformation, not the power level. But either way, it doesn't feel to me like there would be any point in that comment if SSJ3 Goku was a small fry compared to SSJ3 Gotenks.

3. In the cover of the 25th volume of the manga, SSJ3 Goku, SSJ3 Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan are about to fire together. To me, that paints a picture of them not being leagues away from each other in power.

4. Fat Buu (pre split), Super Buu, and Kid Buu don't have to have different power levels.
Fat Buu's transformation could be bad news and serve a dramatic purpose in the story even without his power changing: his body becomes more athletic and his heart more evil. Furthermore, Goku made about the same statement for all three Buus: that he can't beat them.
-About Fat Buu: He's mighty strong. I don't think I could've beaten him.
-About Super Buu: He'll kill us if we go out like this.
-About Kid Buu: This isn't what I thought it to be. We should have fused.
All in all, from a writing point of view, it's best to view those three Buus as different manifestations of the same power. With any of them, Goku could put up a good fight, but he was doomed to lose due to the SSJ3 form draining his stamina.

In short, Goku is about at the same level as the three Buus, and SSJ3 Gotenks is a little stronger than that level.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Also modern material (DBS, YSG) implying the gap wasn’t that big and Goku caught up soon.

I’d never say they’re close, but in the other thread I think SF raises some good points for the gap not being multifold, but if Super Boo can stomp SSJ3 Goku, then so can Gotenks. 1.5x - 2x is the lowest you can go.

But either way, it doesn't feel to me like there would be any point in that comment if SSJ3 Goku was a small fry compared to SSJ3 Gotenks.

I don’t get it. There would be no point in Goku praising Gotenks if Gotenks blew Goku out of the water?
 

Hector

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I don’t get it. There would be no point in Goku praising Gotenks if Gotenks blew Goku out of the water?
Why did Goku emphasize Gotenks reaching SSJ3? If SSJ3 Gotenks was dimensions above SSJ3 Goku, isn't that what should have impressed Goku rather than the fact that they have the same transformation?

Imagine SSJ Namek Goku somehow meeting SSJ Goten. Which of the two statements would make more sense for SSJ Namek Goku to make?
-Wow, that little kid can defeat me in a fraction of a second.
-Wow, that little kid has achieved a transformation it took me years to attain.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Hector, point #3 I already answered that before, but you think all Boo's are around the same ball-park anyway, right?!
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Imagine SSJ Namek Goku somehow meeting SSJ Goten. Which of the two statements would make more sense for SSJ Namek Goku to make?
-Wow, that little kid can defeat me in a fraction of a second.
-Wow, that little kid has achieved a transformation it took me years to attain.

Both?

With Gotenks, at least Goku predicted Gotenks would be above him, so being surprised about that would be redundant.
 

Hector

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With Gotenks, at least Goku predicted Gotenks would be above him, so being surprised about that would be redundant.
If the gap was as big as SSJ3 Goku < SSJ Gotenks pre < Base Gotenks post << SSJ Gotenks post << SSJ3 Gotenks, Goku should at the very least be surprised at how hugely stronger Gotenks is.
 

Dagon

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Also modern material (DBS, YSG) implying the gap wasn’t that big and Goku caught up soon.

I’d never say they’re close, but in the other thread I think SF raises some good points for the gap not being multifold, but if Super Boo can stomp SSJ3 Goku, then so can Gotenks. 1.5x - 2x is the lowest you can go.



I don’t get it. There would be no point in Goku praising Gotenks if Gotenks blew Goku out of the water?
Rather than say the gap was always not so great I'd rather say Goku just overcame whatever gap there was, even with the base post > SSJ pre theory.
 

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