Why shouldn't we lower...

[Fantastische Hure]

Future #17's power he used against Future Gohan in the first fight?

It seems like most people like to keep it at 35% or 40%, but it's somewhat hard to fit in with all the powers later-on, namely #19 & #20. If we lower the power then it fits a-lot easier. The only problem I find is that once you do that, the difference between mainly Vegeta and the Androids might become too big for them to put-up the bit of resistance they did (did they?).

 

[Six Trails]

#17 was bragging, so it'd make more sense for him to say "I didn't even use a third of my strength!" or "I only used a third of my strength!" if he truly did use anything below 33%. That's my reasoning, at least.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

#17 was bragging, so it'd make more sense for him to say "I didn't even use a third of my strength!" or "I only used a third of my strength!" if he truly did use anything below 33%. That's my reasoning, at least.

True, but at the same time, it's technically not wrong. Just not specific. Maybe #17 didn't know what to call a 3rd.

It's like a puzzle almost, and if you work back-ward from the present-day Androids-fight (against #20 & #19) to the future, then you can see just how much power #17 used in his first fight.

When I just worked it out, it had #17 using like 31% of his power.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

oh ye, here's that:

Spoiler

Future #17 - 100
Future #18 - 90

SSj Vegeta - 90
SSj Goku - 85.5
SSj Trunks - 80
Piccolo - 64

Android #19 - 43
Android #20 - 53

SSj Goku (post-Yardrat) - 44
SSj Trunks (Debut) - 39
SSj Future Gohan - 35.5
Future #17 (< 50%) - 31
SSj Future Gohan (with 2 arms) - 25

Mecha-Freeza - 20
SSj Goku (Namek) - 19
100% Freeza - 17.5

 

[Six Trails]

Well I can't really disprove that, so it's valid. Here's how it works out for me:

Spoiler

Future #17 - 100
Future #18 - 100

SSj Vegeta - 100
SSj Goku - 96
SSj Trunks - 90
Piccolo - 72

Android #20 - 60
Android #19 - 54?

SSj Goku (post-Yardrat) - 50
SSj Trunks (Debut) - 45
SSj Future Gohan - 40
Future #17 (< 50%) - 36
SSj Future Gohan (with 2 arms) - 30

Mecha-Freeza - 27
SSj Goku (Namek) - 25
100% Freeza - 24

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well I can't really disprove that, so it's valid. Here's how it works out for me:

Spoiler

Future #17 - 100
Future #18 - 100

SSj Vegeta - 100
SSj Goku - 96
SSj Trunks - 90
Piccolo - 72

Android #20 - 60
Android #19 - 54?

SSj Goku (post-Yardrat) - 50
SSj Trunks (Debut) - 45
SSj Future Gohan - 40
Future #17 (< 50%) - 36
SSj Future Gohan (with 2 arms) - 30

Mecha-Freeza - 27
SSj Goku (Namek) - 25
100% Freeza - 24

It works well-enough for you actually, since you still kept it above a third.

I don't know whether I should do that, though. The gap between Vegeta & #19 be above 2x then.

 

[Six Trails]

The only stipulation is that I have to have Future #17 = Future #18, which is odd since Present #17 > Present #18, but I think it's doable if we just assume Gero suppressed them even further in the future than he did in the present and they just ended up equal.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

The only stipulation is that I have to have Future #17 = Future #18, which is odd since Present #17 > Present #18, but I think it's doable if we just assume Gero suppressed them even further in the future than he did in the present and they just ended up equal.

I would have thought they were even, too if it wasn't for the statements.

Do you think 2x gap is too huge for #19 to do what he did to Vegeta?

 

[Six Trails]

I tend to just rank #19 based on statements regarding #20 post and #19/#20 pre instead of his fight with Vegeta. I'd say that it could be over 2x since #19 drained a lot of energy from Vegeta (which simultaneously made him stronger) and still got one-shotted by the Big Bang Attack.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I tend to just rank #19 based on statements regarding #20 post and #19/#20 pre instead of his fight with Vegeta. I'd say that it could be over 2x since #19 drained a lot of energy from Vegeta (which simultaneously made him stronger) and still got one-shotted by the Big Bang Attack.

True, I'm not sure if I'd change my thoughts on this subject as of now, but maybe. It's worth a thought.

Thanks a-lot.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I tried to make a list with Future 17 at 40 % of his power, and it makes the gaps really cramped, but its doable:

Spoiler

Future #17 - 50
Future #18 - 50

SSJ Vegeta - 50
SSJ Goku - 48
SSJ Trunks - 45
Piccolo - 40

Android #20 - 30
Android #19 - 27

SSJ Goku (Yardrat) - 25
SSJ Trunks (Debut) - 22
SSJ Future Gohan - 21
Future #17 (40%) - 20
SSJ Future Gohan (2 arms) - 18

Mecha Freeza - 16
SSJ Goku (Namek) - 15
Organic Freeza - 14

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I tried to make a list with Future 17 at 40 % of his power, and it makes the gaps really cramped, but its doable:

Spoiler

Future #17 - 50
Future #18 - 50

SSJ Vegeta - 50
SSJ Goku - 48
SSJ Trunks - 45
Piccolo - 40

Android #20 - 30
Android #19 - 27

SSJ Goku (Yardrat) - 25
SSJ Trunks (Debut) - 22
SSJ Future Gohan - 21
Future #17 (40%) - 20
SSJ Future Gohan (2 arms) - 18

Mecha Freeza - 16
SSJ Goku (Namek) - 15
Organic Freeza - 14

Yeah, normally it's kind-of hard to do, even-though a-lot of or even most things fit perfectly. It's just one thing that makes me want to lessen the percentage #17 used and that's, that #20 was implied to be >> #19 and as we can see by your list too, it's hard to do with the 40% or even 35%.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Yeah, its technically not wrong to decrease the percentage below 33.3. I don't exactly like doing it, but it makes the rest of the Android Arc a lot easier to comfortably fit.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, its technically not wrong to decrease the percentage below 33.3. I don't exactly like doing it, but it makes the rest of the Android Arc a lot easier to comfortably fit.

Right! But I do have to say, besides the #20 >> #19 thing, everything-else almost fits in absolutely perfectly. You just need to figure it out first.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

19 post < 20 pre really kind of kills it... I would just nerf 19 and 20, but the fact that they are capable of damaging the Super Saiyans and that Piccolo entertained the idea that they had gotten too strong makes me not want to do that.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

19 post < 20 pre really kind of kills it... I would just nerf 19 and 20, but the fact that they are capable of damaging the Super Saiyans and that Piccolo entertained the idea that they had gotten too strong makes me not want to do that.

Whatever it is, we can say all of that still makes 100x more sense than DragonBall Super.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

hey @Kyo, wot do u think???

i was just thinking abt the androids post-absorptions & how #20 (post) was made out to be >> #19 (post everything)

& that #19 was said to have sucked a-lot of energy out-of vegeta, so the diff. might even be bigger than i thought

Spoiler

Future #17 - 100
Future #18 - 90

SSj Vegeta - 90
SSj Goku - 85.5
SSj Trunks - 80
Piccolo - 64

Android #19 - 33
Android #20 - 52

SSj Goku (post-Yardrat) - 34
SSj Trunks (Debut) - 30
SSj Future Gohan - 27
Future #17 (< 50%) - 24/25
SSj Future Gohan (with 2 arms) - 19

Mecha-Freeza - 15.5
SSj Goku (Namek) - 15
100% Freeza - 14

 

[xmysticgohanx]

I go with 35

I'm not good with levels though so I'll just edit @One Piece Bus Ride's

Spoiler

Future #17 - 100
Future #18 - 95

SSj Vegeta - 100
SSj Goku - 96
SSj Trunks - 90
Piccolo - 72

Android #20 - 60
Android #19 - 54?

SSj Goku (post-Yardrat) - 50
SSj Trunks (Debut) - 45
SSj Future Gohan - 40
Future #17 (< 50%) - 35
SSj Future Gohan (with 2 arms) - 30

Mecha-Freeza - 27
SSj Goku (Namek) - 25
100% Freeza - 24

 

[Kyo]

hey @Kyo, wot do u think???

i was just thinking abt the androids post-absorptions & how #20 (post) was made out to be >> #19 (post everything)

& that #19 was said to have sucked a-lot of energy out-of vegeta, so the diff. might even be bigger than i thought

Spoiler

Future #17 - 100
Future #18 - 90

SSj Vegeta - 90
SSj Goku - 85.5
SSj Trunks - 80
Piccolo - 64

Android #19 - 33
Android #20 - 52

SSj Goku (post-Yardrat) - 34
SSj Trunks (Debut) - 30
SSj Future Gohan - 27
Future #17 (< 50%) - 24/25
SSj Future Gohan (with 2 arms) - 19

Mecha-Freeza - 15.5
SSj Goku (Namek) - 15
100% Freeza - 14

i can fux wit it, probably

 

[kriss-]

Android 19 is the stronger of the two, having fought Vegeta and effectively wearing him down. Whereas Gero couldn't hold his own against a much weaker Piccolo.