Yamcha (23rd Budokai) vs old Piccolo Daimao

[ahill1]

Yamcha from the last tournament shown in part 1, the one who was eliminated by Kami/Shen vs Piccolo Daimao before regaining his youth.

Who wins? Give me reasons. If you want, include Kuririn separately as well.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yamcha stomps. He ought to not be that far from Prime Daimao's full power given the praise he got from Kami and being suggested to be on the same level as Kuririn, who put up a good fight against a Piccolo significantly stronger than Daimao.

 

[ahill1]

Yamcha stomps. He ought to not be that far from Prime Daimao's full power given the praise he got from Kami and being suggested to be on the same level as Kuririn, who put up a good fight against a Piccolo significantly stronger than Daimao.

does being prased by Kami qualify as evidence for him being that strong though? being complimented isn't that much of a quantifiable evidence and kami likely thought there wouldn't be high caliber fighters besides Piccolo and Goku at the tournament.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Kami specifically stated that Yamcha could surpass him in time with enough training. That says quite a lot, since he didn't seem sure Goku was superior to him until the finals.

 

[ahill1]

Kami specifically stated that Yamcha could surpass him in time with enough training. That says quite a lot, since he didn't seem sure Goku was superior to him until the finals.

maybe he was being a little liberal with the "soon surpass me" since Yamcha isn't on that level even 5 years later.

and he wasn't sure Goku was > him?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

maybe he was being a little liberal with the "soon surpass me" since Yamcha isn't on that level even 5 years later.

From what we can infer from the BoZ battle powers, Yamcha likely didn't keep up his training, so hard to use that to invalidate Kami.

and he wasn't sure Goku was > him?

He didn't oversee Galu's training and was surprised by Piccolo's power, despite also suggesting he believed Goku capable of killing Piccolo if he didn't let his feelings get in the way.

 

[ahill1]

From what we can infer from the BoZ battle powers, Yamcha likely didn't keep up his training, so hard to use that to invalidate Kami.

well, we don't know the 23rd Budokai's battle powers.

but can't kami think someone < old piccolo couldn't surpass him post some training? Gohan also stated future trunks would surpass him quickly at that rate, and all future trunks could do was keep up with base future Gohan while using SSJ.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

We can infer from the way they're treat, however, that Yamcha and Kuririn are comparable during the 23rd TB.

There's a major difference between Kami and Future Gohan's statements. Gohan's statement comes from a point of the series where race and genetics being a major component to potential had been grounded and the potential half-Saiyans in general had to make huge strides in little time had been made apparent since the Saiyan Arc. Yamcha has none of those privileges to influence Kami's estimations.

 

[ahill1]

We can infer from the way they're treat, however, that Yamcha and Kuririn are comparable during the 23rd TB.

There's a major difference between Kami and Future Gohan's statements. Gohan's statement comes from a point of the series where race and genetics being a major component to potential had been grounded and the potential half-Saiyans in general had to make huge strides in little time had been made apparent since the Saiyan Arc. Yamcha has none of those privileges to influence Kami's estimations.

ok, but we don't know if he had a good Intel on yamcha's potential. for all he knew, someone like Yamcha honing himself to a level above drum, for example, could catch up to him quickly, couldn't he?

 

[SSJ2]

I think he stomps. He loses to full power Young Piccolo imo.

I don't have evidence.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

[mention]ahill1[/mention] Doubtful in the context of the series at the time. Popo's training should be above the level that regular Earthly training offers, so it's doubtful Kami would offer such praise if Yamcha still had that much catching up to do with lesser training. Beyond that, there's no reason not to believe Yamcha wouldn't scale to Kuririn when Kami had already gauged what Goku's other friends were capable of with Kuririn VS Piccolo. It'd seem odd for him to offer such praise to someone if they were far below that level.

 

[SSJ2]

Didn't Piccolo say that the likes of Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan woukd make taking over the world more difficult?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

yamcha owns. kami's words & both kuririn & yamcha's performances are enough for me, especially since old piccolo-daimao became irrelevant once he turned young, since he said there was no comparison as to how he was before to goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Didn't Piccolo say that the likes of Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan woukd make taking over the world more difficult?

He did, though he later said their combined efforts along with those of Kami and Roshi would be useless against his fatigued self.

 

[SSJ2]

Didn't Piccolo say that the likes of Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan woukd make taking over the world more difficult?

He did, though he later said their combined efforts along with those of Kami and Roshi would be useless against his fatigued self.

Right, but imo the initial statement wouldn't make much sense if the humans couldn't even beat Old Piccolo Daimao. There would be nothing noteworthy about them if they were at that level.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Right, but imo the initial statement wouldn't make much sense if the humans couldn't even beat Old Piccolo Daimao. There would be nothing noteworthy about them if they were at that level.

Agreed. Daimao already got a taste of what to expect from fighters in the current age, so Piccolo's statement would make little sense if Kuririn and Yamcha were irrelevant to Daimao.

 

[Animelover5487]

Right, but imo the initial statement wouldn't make much sense if the humans couldn't even beat Old Piccolo Daimao. There would be nothing noteworthy about them if they were at that level.

Agreed. Daimao already got a taste of what to expect from fighters in the current age, so Piccolo's statement would make little sense if Kuririn and Yamcha were irrelevant to Daimao.

Do you take Goku's statement of Initial Jr. being far superior to Daimao at face value?.If so, Kuririn and probably Yamcha too may need to be above even Young Daimao since Kuririn was almost on par with him initially and still held his ground well enough even after he powered up.

Honestly, the only implication for them being below Divine Water Goku/Young Daimao is them being surprised by
Weighted Goku's speed but they still was able to follow it and nothing explicitly stated they are incapable of it.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Do you take Goku's statement of Initial Jr. being far superior to Daimao at face value?.If so, Kuririn and probably Yamcha too may need to be above even Young Daimao since Kuririn was almost on par with him initially and still held his ground well enough even after he powered up.

I do, considering there was no indication Goku was making estimations on what power he may have beyond what he showed. However, I wouldn't say that'd cement Yamcha and Kuririn being above as being above FP Prime Daimao, at least without aid of their Sokidan and Kamehameha respectively. Piccolo powered up out of respect for Kuririn's efforts rather than necessity and was trying not to kill Kuririn, with Kuririn's only saving grace being his tactical fighting style.

Honestly, the only implication for them being below Divine Water Goku/Young Daimao is them being surprised by
Weighted Goku's speed but they still was able to follow it and nothing explicitly stated they are incapable of it.

Tenshinhan also referred to Goku's strength from 3 years prior in reverence and was astonished at him having been able to significantly surpass his power from back then. Would be quite a pointless statement if Yamcha and Kuririn solidly surpassed that Goku in all regards.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

My vote goes for Yamcha. His Sokidan is a strongly effective move.

 

[SSJ2]

I think he could win without using his hands. No need for Sokidan.