i made some numbers

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta’s amp is tricky. The blast has to be strong enough to give Freeza pause, but I guess our hands are tied, yeah.

Yeah, we don’t really have a choice. Vegeta’s blast is 1.33x in the Saiyan Saga, against Reecome it makes sense so we going forward to Freeza it is what it is.

It’s also nice to set up the Androids Saga KHH, BBA, and LG as 1.5x Ki amps that are superior to Freeza Saga amp. I spent a lot of time on this stuff, progressive ki amp logic is the way to go. It’s completely changed how I go about things and it’s the first thing I think of before I even attempt anything else.

LG at 1.5x makes the Cell gap work beautifully. No need to make Cell 5x Piccolo and all that.

The only cost is you have to change Raditz Arc Kamehameha, AT wrote a story that’s inconsistent with those numbers. I know you hate to make such a move but the deeper you dive into this stuff the more apparent how necessary it is.

 

[Power Level Guy]

SSJ Vegeta: 2,400,000,000

Piccolo 4,000,000,000
-- Light Grenade: 11,000,000,000

Imperfect Cell (post-humans): 20,000,000,000

#16: 20,000,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell: 40,000,000,000
- full power: 48,000,000,000

SSJ Trunks: 39,000,000,000
- SSJG2: 81,900,000,000
- SSJG3: 185,000,000,000

Let's see how this works out.

Ok, you go with ~ 2x boost for Grade 2. And a 2.25x boost for Grade 3. Oh, this gunna fail so bad.

SSJ Vegeta 240
Grade 2 Vegeta 480
Grade 3 Vegeta 1,080


Holy crap. You got Grade 3 Goku not even surpassing Light Grenade here lol.

Grade 3 Goku > Initial Semi Cell.



When I was reading your complaints I saw how much you were hyping up Imperfect Cell and I said "there's no way he realizes the damage he's doing to the Base Goku vs Androids situation..."

Turns out you gimped the hell out of the Grade forms and still only managed to have Base Goku about double the Androids.

Wait until you start actually making Grade 3 Goku > Semi Cell. Then you will know hell. Lol

And yeah, you got all sorts of issues with your Androids 19/20 levels. Not so easy to deal with eh?

 

[Kyo]

I pretty much took zero long-term considerations when making this list, it's gonna be a pretty bad one for anyone who actually cares

 

[Power Level Guy]

I pretty much took zero long-term considerations when making this list, it's gonna be a pretty bad one for anyone who actually cares

Yeah, that's one of the biggest things people don't realize when doing this stuff. Like if you don't plan ahead, you are so screwed. You can't just go chronologically at all.

You need to do the Base Saiyan gaps in the Buu Saga first before anything and then try to see if things fit in.

This Grade form stuff is a real headache though, there doesn't seem to be anyway to get around it and it completely breaks everyone's list.


Grade 3 Goku really does appear to be 10x SSJ Goku. Super problematic.

 

[Animelover5487]

Yeah, that's one of the biggest things people don't realize when doing this stuff. Like if you don't plan ahead, you are so screwed. You can't just go chronologically at all.

You need to do the Base Saiyan gaps in the Buu Saga first before anything and then try to see if things fit in.

This Grade form stuff is a real headache though, there doesn't seem to be anyway to get around it and it completely breaks everyone's list.


Grade 3 Goku really does appear to be 10x SSJ Goku. Super problematic.

Grade 3 could be a 10x multiplier over SSJ but it doesn't have to be. Either way it's impractical to use in battle due to the speed issue so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Grade 3 could be a 10x multiplier over SSJ but it doesn't have to be.

It does have to be though. That's the issue. If Grade 3 Goku is based off of SSJ Goku from the Androids Saga like he should be, Grade 3 MUST be 10x. There's no other way around it.

Either way it's impractical to use in battle due to the speed issue so it doesn't really matter.

This is entirely missing the point. If Grade 3 is a 10x boost, it forces many things onto us.

 

[Animelover5487]

It does have to be though. That's the issue. If Grade 3 Goku is based off of SSJ Goku from the Androids Saga like he should be, Grade 3 MUST be 10x. There's no other way around it.


This is entirely missing the point. If Grade 3 is a 10x boost, it forces many things onto us.

Didn't Goku unlock Grade 3 mid time chamber training? His SSJ1 should be stronger than it was during the Android saga.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Didn't Goku unlock Grade 3 mid time chamber training?

He hadn't begun his real training yet and he's maxxed out. Plus, it hasn't been all that long either. It's probably less than two months.

His SSJ1 should be stronger than it was during the Android saga.

How though? He hasn't even begun his real training yet.

Like, if Goku was 150 in the Androids Saga, what do you expect him to be Mid-Rosat?

Narratively speaking, they all act as if they are completely tapped out of power.

How strong do you expect Goku to be without MSSJ or Grade form training?

 

[Kyo]

You need to do the Base Saiyan gaps in the Buu Saga first before anything and then try to see if things fit in.

Yeah there's a lot of nonsense

- Figure out your cap for Future 17, this dictates where Piccolo through SSJ Vegeta can be
- Piccolo through SSJ Vegeta dictate Present 18, which dictates Boo arc Base Saiyans
- Boo arc SSJs dictate the Cell Games SSJs, which puts a cap on everything that comes before
- Grade 3 Goku > Initial Semi Cell
- Vegeta vs 19 gap dictates every relevant Cell arc gap
- 20 vs 19 implications complicate Vegeta vs 19

He hadn't begun his real training yet and he's maxxed out. Plus, it hasn't been all that long either. It's probably less than two months.

You can squeeze in a 1.1-1.2x boost if you really want, it's within the realm of believability with everything we know and you need all the help you can get here

 

[Power Level Guy]

- Figure out your cap for Future 17, this dictates where Piccolo through SSJ Vegeta can be

Yeah, but you can't really have a hard cap or you won't be able to make all the power chains work. Less than half isn't as strict as some of the power chains.

- Piccolo through SSJ Vegeta dictate Present 18, which dictates Boo arc Base Saiyans

What's your Base Saiyan chain including the Androids?

Android 18
Base Boys
Base Teen Gohan

?

You can squeeze in a 1.1-1.2x boost if you really want, it's within the realm of believability with everything we know and you need all the help you can get here

Sure, but that ain't doing much lol. We still have that massive power chain that includes multiple tanks.

Just think. Piccolo is one shotting Goku, who then should have a blast that makes Saiyan Saga amp look pathetic get tanked, then the person who can tank that gets tanked. Lol. Good luck.

 

[Power Level Guy]

- Grade 3 Goku > Initial Semi Cell

This is the one that kills.

- Vegeta vs 19 gap dictates every relevant Cell arc gap
- 20 vs 19 implications complicate Vegeta vs 19

Indeed. They determine every friggen thing. And the bigger you make 19 vs Vegeta, the bigger headaches you have with everything else. It's a nightmare lol

 

[Kyo]

Yeah, but you can't really have a hard cap or you won't be able to make all the power chains work. Less than half isn't as strict as some of the power chains.

You've gotta have something. I think we can all agree "less than half" can't be 10% for example.

What's your Base Saiyan chain including the Androids?

Android 18
Base Boys
Base Teen Gohan

?

Gohan >> Boys >= 18 is what I would like to have, obviously this requires CG Veg/Trunks to be around 18 in base

 

[Power Level Guy]

obviously this requires CG Veg/Trunks to be around 18 in base

But those are the pre Rosat boys, it’s very possible the post Rosat boys are much stronger.

 

[Kyo]

boo arc rosat is meme shit ngl

but yeah good point

 

[Power Level Guy]

boo arc rosat is meme shit ngl

but yeah good point

Yeah. If Gotenks went from having no chance to having a real chance, not sure why the boys would be excluded from that.