Kid Gohan > Majin Vegeta

[Warmmedown]

First of all an opinion about some-thing subjective is the only thing, but if it’s an objective fact then how is it not objectively wrong (but just an opinion according to you)?

either-way I stand by what I said, Cell-Saga Gohan >>>…>> every-one.

It's just your subjective opinion that it's an objective fact.

 

[Godku0123]

It's just your subjective opinion that it's an objective fact.

It's an objective fact that Majin Vegeta > Kid Gohan is just an opinion. Lol

 

[Warmmedown]

Aside from explicit statements, we also got an instance where it was implied x is 'exactly' equal to y when Goku, Krillin, Goten and Trunks failed to sense Super Buu's increase in power. Piccolo didn't question Buu's increase in power when everyone else did (which again is the closest DB equivalent of stating 'exactly' equal). So if Super Buu was really equal to Fat Buu (according to everyone else questioning it), Piccolo would have questioned it the same as he questioned Kid Gohan/Majin Vegeta.

If the Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Goku difference is 1% but as still notable from afar (to Kid Trunks) then Piccolo should notice the Majin Vegeta/Kid Gohan difference even if it was 0.001%.

By the same token, if the Super Buu/Fat Buu difference is 1% but was still notable from afar (to Piccolo) then Goku, Krillin, Goten and Kid Trunks should notice the alleged power increase even if it was by 0.001%.

Piccolo has to try to remember Kid Gohan's power. Whereas telling Goku and Vegeta apart is easier, because they're currently present. Piccolo could be better at sensing ki differences, so feels the difference between Fat and Super Buu more easily than most characters, but struggled with the Kid Goha/Vegeta difference, due to needing to rely on his memory of Gohan's ki. The same goes for Buu and Super Buu - they're easier to feel because they're both recent.
It's also possible Piccolo felt Fat Buu's ki more precisely than anyone else, because he was there for the battle between Fat Buu and Vegeta and in a calmer state. Whereas Goku was far away, Trunks and Goten are inexperienced, Trunks was in an emotional state and Krillin is much weaker.

 

[Warmmedown]

It's an objective fact that Majin Vegeta > Kid Gohan is just an opinion. Lol

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about Cell Games Gohan>Vegeta.

And no. It's an objective fact that Vegeta>Gohan is an opinion.
It's not an objective fact that Vegeta>Gohan is ONLY an opinion. Because it's possible that Vegeta>Gohan is both an opinion and an objective fact.

 

[Godku0123]

Piccolo has to try to remember Kid Gohan's power.

So the issue now is misremembering is it? How about Goku questioning Z Sword Gohan > Fat Buu; Is he misremembering Fat Buu's power after minutes/hours of fighting him?

Whereas telling Goku and Vegeta apart is easier, because they're currently present.

Vegeta was long gone when Trunks made the comparison.

Piccolo could be better at sensing ki differences, so feels the difference between Fat and Super Buu more easily than most characters,

If his ki sensing abilities were sharper than the others it would have been easier for him to notice any gap between Gohan and Vegeta, if there was one, because Vegeta was able to sense as much when Goku went SSJ2.

but struggled with the Kid Goha/Vegeta difference, due to needing to rely on his memory of Gohan's ki.

Majin Vegeta didn't struggle when he relied on his memory.

The same goes for Buu and Super Buu - they're easier to feel because they're both recent.

They're both recent but 4 characters out of 5 couldn't pick up on the alleged difference.

It's also possible Piccolo felt Fat Buu's ki more precisely than anyone else, because he was there for the battle between Fat Buu and Vegeta and in a calmer state.

Krillin was also there and he was also in a calm state.

Whereas Goku was far away,

Gohan, Kaioshin and Kibito felt SSJ3 Goku's power.

Trunks and Goten are inexperienced, Trunks was in an emotional state

Trunks sensed the gap between Goku and Vegeta.

Goten can sense ki just the same.

and Krillin is much weaker.

So?

 

[Godku0123]

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about Cell Games Gohan>Vegeta.

It's just as much of an opinion as Vegeta > Gohan.

it's possible that Vegeta>Gohan is both an opinion and an objective fact.

It can't be an objective fact if it can be disproven.

Prove Majin Vegeta > Gohan anyway you can.

 

[Warmmedown]

It can be an objective fact until it's sufficiently disproven. 3+3=6 is an objective fact, but until it's proven it's not known to be an objective fact. Until it's been proven, it's still in a state of "it can still can be disproven", yet that doesn't change it was still an objective fact all along. 3+3=7 is as not an objective fact, but until it's disproven it's still possible it's an objective fact.

Vegeta wasn't long gone. He'd been gone a few hours. The Buu Saga all happens in around one day.

Krillin is weak so maybe he can't sense the differences between very powerful ki.

Majin Vegeta didn't struggle relying on his memory because Gohan had lost considerable power. Maybe Kid Gohan and Majin Vegeta are quite close in power.

Super Buu and Fat Buu, I already gave reasons why the others don't pick up on it. It's also still possible Piccolo just senses ki better than the others. Did he actually say he can't sense a difference between Goku and Vegeta, or he just neglected to say anything about it?

Gohan, Kaioshin and Kibito felt SSJ3 Goku's power

What's the significance of this?

 

[Godku0123]

Vegeta wasn't long gone. He'd been gone a few hours. The Buu Saga all happens in around one day.

You said he was currently present and I debunked you on it.

Speaking of being present, Fat Buu was still present after Goku fought him but questioned Z Sword Gohan > Fat Buu like Piccolo. You dodged this.

Krillin is weak so maybe he can't sense the differences between very powerful ki.

Piccolo is also weak.

Majin Vegeta didn't struggle relying on his memory because Gohan had lost considerable power.

Both Vegeta and Piccolo were present on the battlefield.

Super Buu and Fat Buu, I already gave reasons why the others don't pick up on it.

And I debunked every one of those reasons.

It's also still possible Piccolo just senses ki better than the others.

If his ki sensing abilities were sharper than the others it would have been easier for him to notice any gap between Gohan and Vegeta, if there was one, because Vegeta was able to sense as much when Goku went SSJ2.

Did he actually say he can't sense a difference between Goku and Vegeta, or he just neglected to say anything about it?

"Vegeta is about as strong as Gohan" is what Piccolo didn't say.

He said the same thing as Goku when questioning Z Sword Gohan > Fat Buu; "Is he stronger?"

What's the significance of this?

Sensing from a distance isn't an issue to any of them.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It's just your subjective opinion that it's an objective fact.

I mean factually looking at some-thing that has an objective truth.

 

[Warmmedown]

I mean factually looking at some-thing that has an objective truth.

How do you what is the objective truth though? You could be incorrect. Maybe it's only your subjective opinion that you're correctly looking at it factually and finding an objective truth.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

How do you what is the objective truth though? You could be incorrect. Maybe it's only your subjective opinion that you're correctly looking at it factually and finding an objective truth.

Stop with this objective, subjective stuff.

 

[Godku0123]

How do you what is the objective truth though? You could be incorrect. Maybe it's only your subjective opinion that you're correctly looking at it factually and finding an objective truth.

Actions speak louder than words.

Actions in this case is evidence. Words is you going off topic when your "objective fact" gets disproven.

If you run away every time you get debunked you may as well realize you're a sore loser.

I challenged you to prove that Majin Vegeta is stronger than CG Gohan and you couldn't.

 

[Pakl]

Stop feeding him. He is a troll from Neoseeker.

 

[sei'taer]

Goku is stated equal to Vegeta by like three separate people, what even is this nonsense.

Just like them being stronger than Gohan vs Cell is stated by multiple people.

If you're going to troll at least put some effort into it.

 

[Warmmedown]

Actions speak louder than words.

Actions in this case is evidence. Words is you going off topic when your "objective fact" gets disproven.

If you run away every time you get debunked you may as well realize you're a sore loser.

I challenged you to prove that Majin Vegeta is stronger than CG Gohan and you couldn't.

You hugely overestimate how much I care about DBZ debating. I never accepted any challenge of yours. I gave you the courtesy of responding to your shit, because nobody else was, but you act like a rude imbecile.

Also I wasn't even talking to you about objective facts. What the fuck is my "objective fact" you refer to? I never called anything an objective fact, in this entire topic. Are you genuinely retarded?

 

[Warmmedown]

"Vegeta is about as strong as Gohan" is what Piccolo didn't say.

You could have said what he said, but you're just obtuse so don't say what he said lol. I asked because I have no idea what he said, because I haven't read or watched this part of Z since 20121

 

[Godku0123]

You could have said what he said, but you're just obtuse so don't say what he said lol. I asked because I have no idea what he said, because I haven't read or watched this part of Z since 20121

Piccolo: "This is tremendous ki... Gohan from the Cell fight... I wonder if it's stronger..."

The author intentionally left Piccolo wondering for trolling purposes.

 

[Godku0123]

Goku is stated equal to Vegeta by like three separate people, what even is this nonsense.

Let's see those statements then.

Just like them being stronger than Gohan vs Cell is stated by multiple people.

Goku > Gohan is what's stated.

Vegeta > Gohan wouldn't be debatable if it was stated.

If you're going to troll at least put some effort into it.

Sure, because disproving your belief is trolling.

 

[Godku0123]

According to Kid Trunks and Piccolo's ki sensing, the gap between Majin Vegeta and Goku is notable, the one between Kid Gohan and Majin Vegeta isn't.

It's up for debate whether the scaling is:

SSJ2 Goku > Kid Gohan > Majin Vegeta
SSJ2 Goku > Majin Vegeta > Kid Gohan
SSJ2 Goku > Kid Gohan = Majin Vegeta
Kid Gohan > Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku
Majin Vegeta > Kid Gohan > SSJ2 Goku
Kid Gohan = Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku

 

[Godku0123]

To prove I'm not trolling, Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku is heavily implied and I firmly believe it's the case:

1. Goku stated beforehand that Kid Gohan is stronger than him in SSJ2.
2. Kid Trunks' wording makes it sound like Majin Vegeta is the stronger one.
3. Goku's wording also leans toward Majin Vegeta > SSJ2 Goku.
4. Majin Vegeta had the advantage in their fight and did damaged Goku more than the other way around. He also landed more hits.
5. Goku is more skilled so the only way for him to make up for an even fight is with the power:skill ratio.
6. In the Funi dub Majin Vegeta says "At least you're stronger than your son was against Cell," implying he believes he's stronger than Goku.

So all the evidence favors Vegeta being the stronger one.