(FF Freeza > Piccolo) > (1st Form Freeza > Krillen)

This is simple.

Premise 1: Vegeta considers Krillen helpful against 1st Form Freeza.

Premise 2: Vegeta does not consider Piccolo to be helpful against FF Freeza.

Conclusion: FF Freeza's advantage over Piccolo is far greater than 1st Form Freeza's advantage over Krillen.

Fight me!

Is this not a given? Piccolo was already useless against 3rd Form Freeza, let alone 4th Form.

SSJ2 said:

Is this not a given? Piccolo was already useless against 3rd Form Freeza, let alone 4th Form.

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No, I definitely disagree with that.

(1st Form Freeza > Krillen) > (3rd Form Freeza > Piccolo)

If Vegeta was 90% of 3rd form Freeza, Piccolo's help would give them a definitive victory over 3rd Form Freeza for sure.

You're missing my point. I'm saying that as an individual Piccolo was already useless against 3rd Form Freeza. Initial 4th Form Freeza is presented as being an astronomical jump from 3rd Form Freeza. Piccolo will obviously be of no help under any circumstances against him.

SSJ2 said:

You're missing my point. I'm saying that as an individual Piccolo was already useless against 3rd Form Freeza.

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No my friend, you are the one missing the point. Lol.

I acknowledge Piccolo's uselessness in regards to a one on one battle with 3rd Form Freeza. We are not discussing someone's usefulness in one on one. We are discussing someone's usefulness in a team up scenario, being the weaker teammate.

So for example, a one to one comparison here would be this.

Compare Piccolo vs 3rd Form Freeza to Krillen vs 1st Form Freeza. My argument is that Krillen is way more useless against 1st Form Freeza than Piccolo is against 3rd Form Freeza. Do you see the difference? Neither has a chance one on one. But if they team up with someone much closer to Freeza, they can both be helpful. Piccolo is obviously going to be much more helpful against 3rd Form Freeza than Krillen would be helpful against 1st Form Freeza.

SSJ2 said:

Initial 4th Form Freeza is presented as being an astronomical jump from 3rd Form Freeza. Piccolo will obviously be of no help under any circumstances against him.

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Well that would mean that the disparity between Piccolo to FF Freeza is much larger than the disparity between Krillen and 1st Form Freeza. Which is my entire point.

This proves that Vegeta (vs FF Freeza) has a much larger advantage over Piccolo than he previously had over Krillen when he was fighting 1st Form Freeza.

Do you see my point now?

I'm not even sure why you're disagreeing with me. I never once disagreed with what you said and even said this was an obvious conclusion to make. My entire point was to illustrate the difference of 4th Form and 3rd Form Freeza, with Piccolo already being useless as an individual, to then being literal fodder to 4th Form Freeza initially. He's fodder in any circumstance, he's not assisting in any way against that level of power when Krillin is able to assist against 1st Form Freeza.

SSJ2 said:

He's fodder in any circumstance, he's not assisting in any way against that level of power when Krillin is able to assist against 1st Form Freeza.

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Is King Cold fodder to SSJ Goku Namek? Or is he useful in assisting?

King Cold is more than 50% of Goku so yeah, he can help. Piccolo is well below 50% of 4th Form Freeza.

SSJ2 said:

Is this not a given? Piccolo was already useless against 3rd Form Freeza, let alone 4th Form.

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He saved Gohan from 3rd form Freeza.

GSM123 said:

He saved Gohan from 3rd form Freeza.

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He also saved Goku from 50% Freeza. It's not relevant to how useful he was in the fight. He got fucking destroyed by Freeza without Freeza needing to touch him physically.

SSJ2 said:

He also saved Goku from 50% Freeza. It's not relevant to how useful he was in the fight. He got fucking destroyed by Freeza without Freeza needing to touch him physically.

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Of course he got destroyed in 1v1 lol. We’re talking about teamwork.

Kuririn was helpful against 2nd form Freeza too. If you take this logic to its natural conclusion, the gap between Piccolo and Initial Final form Freeza has to be bigger than the gap between Kuririn and 2nd form Freeza (at least his power up vs. Gohan, not necessarily his full power).

Diamond Ryan said:

Kuririn was helpful against 2nd form Freeza too. If you take this logic to its natural conclusion, the gap between Piccolo and Initial Final form Freeza has to be bigger than the gap between Kuririn and 2nd form Freeza (at least his power up vs. Gohan, not necessarily his full power).

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Even though he was helpful, he's never stated to be. I don't think anyone going in to fight 2nd Form Freeza is going to say "Yeah, let Krillen come with me, he's going to help me out."

Sometimes Krillen is giving plot armor or whatever to keep the story going.