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But I'm trying to make it work with the old implications we've got, without trying new material on the chain.

That's Broly limited due to the script, if there's something real Koyama said is that in both times Broly got defeated is because he couldn't thought of anything better, Broly without the script would've been invincible for the Z Fighters both times he appeared.

But he could just be ahead of SSJ Goku, SSJ2 Goku is ahead of SSJ2 Gohan and made SSJ Broly transform. And SSJ3 Goku is stronger than LSSJ Broly.

This is a timeline prior to the 25th Budokai. So, Gohan is as strong as he was in the Buu Saga. Goku's strength hadn't been revealed yet.

Is there any statement about it? I remember that in movie 11 was after the 25th Budokai, but don't know whether Vegeta is dead or is mentioned.

Based on feats and their performance: Goten = 240 SSj = 12,000 Trunks = 250 SSj = 12,500 Gohan = 400 SSj = 20,000 SSj2 = 60,000 SSj Broly = 25,000 LSSj Broly = 80,000 First of all, let's clarify that I'm not nerfing Broly. But the date of release of this movie was March 12, 1994. Which last...

He is just as good when it comes to fulfill the expectatives, not necesarily as comparing his kid with the Future Trunks we all know about. I don't take into account the manga from DBS.

@Power Level Guy I don't follow that neither think what Vegeta was saying is in reference to power. I have to somehow make it work with implications: Goten and Trunks are at least SSJ pre rosat level on base based on their fight with Android 18 and Future Trunks still needs SSJ to kill the...

In that case, we are supposed to assume that Goten improved his fighting style as how it was prior to that. With Cell, we know that he thought he couldn't take the androids, which Trunks told him why they dissapeared, and Trunks pushing him back is the confirmation Cell needed to realize how he...

SSj Vegeta (Pre Rosat) - 237.5 Imperfect Cell (Pre) - 237.5 Goten - 240 Future Android 18 - 240 Trunks - 250 Future Android 17 - 250 Weighted Piccolo - 316.75 Android 18 - 355.68 Goten & Trunks (after training) - 355.68 Piccolo /Android 17- 370.5 Gohan - 400 Expected Goku (Vegeta's...

I've provided many examples as to what it implies, and you? Just your denial. Tien used a massive amplified blast and even then, that could simply had been an inconsistency. Freeza give us the example that at least a gap like him at 70% and SSJ Goku can do the same If a technique was that...

In the context of DB, it always means it is stronger. So, what if he displayed a technique or not? It is still done with his power and nothing suggest it is amplified, unless you think that Piccolo pushing back Cell in the same way doesn't mean he used anything other than his power.

Improved seems to be used to say that someone has gotten stronger: Chapter 340 (DBZ 146), P8.6-7 Goku: “I see…But did you spy on the battle on Planet Namek too?” No.20: “There was no need. By the battle with Vegeta and co., we had already completely grasped your power and techniques. We...

Gohan underestimated Cell because of how he afterwards say that Cell's power has gone up more than he thought, so he wasn't fully prepared to receive the blast and he put all of his ki into speed while not thinking that would affect his defenses and the damage was completely focused on the arm...

I don't think it'd have a narrative purpose for how Piccolo to admire how Kaioshin, Gohan & Vegeta are powerless against Buu if we are supposed to believe that one of the three is weaker than himself.

How much of a gap do you think it exists between them for that to happen?

A recent debate got me thinking and revisit this posibility, Semi Perfect Cell tanks Android 16 in his damaged state: Then, Android 18 comes to action and Cell dodge all of her punches: This can also make a case for how SSJ Trunks is superior to Semi Perfect Cell who had a big jump in...

Of course, I know that it is just a regular kick, and that he could block it, but if he decides to receive it without preparing, how would he end?