17's "no power rivals mine" statement

[SSJ2]

Is this including 18?

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

it includes Zen'Oh

 

[SIAD]

it includes Zen'Oh

Exactly, even # 17 managed to revive the Universes that were destroyed by Zen'o.

 

[ahill1]

Maybe. It can be boasting but perhaps weighted Kamiccolo sits right in-between the duo.

 

[SSJ2]

Maybe. It can be boasting but perhaps weighted Kamiccolo sits right in-between the duo.

Could he not sit in between both of them while they rival one another? The weights aren't suggested to hold back much of his power at that point.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think it’s including her. No one means no one… as far as he knows.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Just saw a picture of Vegeta’s new form and decided that I will never talk about Dragon Ball again. It was a good run y’all.

dbzeta.net/threads/recent-chapter-discussion.3579/post-454930

 

[SSJ2]

I think it’s including her. No one means no one… as far as he knows.

17 is also a little child according to 18. It's reasonable to assume that he's either excluding her from his comment is is simply being arrogant.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Her power is suppressed compared to 17, so there should be a noticeable difference between the two.

 

[SSJ2]

I'd argue a 1.1x difference would qualify as noticeable. Look at how large a mere 1.2x difference was shown to be on Namek. 1.1x can be considered the outside of rivalling range while still being noticeably apart.

 

[ahill1]

Could he not sit in between both of them while they rival one another? The weights aren't suggested to hold back much of his power at that point.

Maybe. I generally do have weighted Kamiccolo as exactly = #18. But if ppl want to look at 17's statement as excluding her, then something like:

Kamiccolo FP 100
Android 17 100
Weighted Kamiccolo 90
Android 18 87

Can work imo. Assuming that 87 doesn't rival 100 (which is kinda nit-picking though because I'm assuming 90 rivals 100, but eh...). We also don't know what 17 considers of a power rivaling his one. It's employed more than once in the series, but characters can have differing perspectives on the word. Maybe a 93 power compared to his 100 is out of rivaling range to him too. Who knows. Remember he also said he was "playing" with Kamiccolo when Cell arrived and future 17 said Trunks is only but a toy despite Trunks informing us he could fight them fairly well.

 

[SSJ2]

We also don't know what 17 considers of a power rivaling his one. It's employed more than once in the series, but characters can have differing perspectives on the word. Maybe a 93 power compared to his 100 is out of rivaling range to him too.

This is a good point. Not to mention the only statement involving battle powers that mentions rivaling is that Raditz rivaled the Saibamen. Outside of that we really have no indication on what Toriyama considered to be rivaling. If we go by that it could definitely imply a small gap between 17 and 18.

Remember he also said he was "playing" with Kamiccolo when Cell arrived and future 17 said Trunks is only but a toy despite Trunks informing us he could fight them fairly well.

Are you trying to imply that 17 wasn't serious against Piccolo? That definitely wasn't the case.

 

[ahill1]

@SuperSaiyan2

Are you trying to imply that 17 wasn't serious against Piccolo? That definitely wasn't the case.

Nah, just saying that 17 boasts in general. If even an opponent = to him propelled him to say he was "playing" with him, I can see him thinking opponents slightly weaker than him as "not rivals".

Idk tho, I generally settle for a 90/100 gap. It's curious that in the anime at the initial portion of the fight between Piccolo and 17, 18 wished to switch places with 17... maybe she thinks she can do almost as good. Maybe.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

dbzeta.net/threads/recent-chapter-discussion.3579/post-454930

 

[SSJ2]

Nothing about 18's reaction to their fight made me think that they were dramatically above her by any stretch.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, 18 was also "midly impressed" by Kamiccolo's 1st assault vs 17 too. Just a "ohh" while smiling. She seemed pretty serious when they were fighting to a draw though, saying "he's deadly equal to 17" iirc.

 

[SSJ2]

Chapter: 368 (DBZ 174), P8.3
No.18: “He really is tough. He’s on par with No.17.”

You can interpret that in several ways. It's not a clear admission of inferiority by any means.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah not saying it is.

 

[SSJ2]

I know, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just searching for anything that would imply that 18 is weaker and I'm not finding it.

 

[ahill1]

Well, weaker she is. I think they are close as we agreed, yeah.