1st form Freeza to No Hands Freeza Power Levels

[Natasha Romanoff]

Nail
-battle power- 42,000

1st form Freeza
-power level- 530,000

Gohan
-power level- 250,000

Krillin
-power level- 200,000

Vegeta (vs 1st form Freeza)
-power level- 492,900

Piccolo (pre Nail fusion)
-power level- 270,000

2nd form Freeza
-initial- 1,060,000
-1st power up- 1,192,500

Gohan
-enraged- 954,000

Piccolo
-post nail fusion- 1,350,000
-w/o weights- 1,518,750

2nd form Freeza
-serious- 1,485,000

3rd form Freeza
-power level- 2,120,000

Gohan
-base- 1,800,00
-enraged masenko- 1,908,000

4th form Freeza
-initial- 4,240,000

Vegeta (after Dende healed him)
-power level- 4,070,400
-final burst canon- 5,427,200

4th form Freeza
-speed up- 5,427,200
-vs final burst canon- 6,219,000

Goku
-initial- 6,840,900
-full power- 7,524,990

4th form Freeza
-warm up- 6,840,900
-no hands- 8,135,124

 

[FeatsofPower]

Goku
-full power- 7,127,440

4th form Freeza
-no hands- 7,602,560

You need more spacing here. Despite Goku forcing Freeza to use his hands, the disparity in power was present. You'd never expect a rivaling power to attempt such a feat.

 

[SSJ2]

You need more spacing here. Despite Goku forcing Freeza to use his hands, the disparity in power was present. You'd never expect a rivaling power to attempt such a feat.

What about the fact that Goku was blocking and dodging his attacks? Not only this, but Goku's speed even took Freeza by surprise.

Would Freeza have performed better with his hands? That much is obvious, but his speed and reaction time shouldn't change. His power also wouldn't change, and Goku had an answer to it almost every time. I think they can be rivals.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Would Freeza have performed better with his hands? That much is obvious, but his speed and reaction time shouldn't change. His power also wouldn't change, and Goku had an answer to it almost every time. I think they can be rivals.

The instant Freeza started using his hands Goku was put down. If that fight continues, it's a brutal beat down.

It looks like equal speed while one person has cut their offensive weapons in half. That means there needs to be quite a sizeable advantage.

You have to imagine what the fight looks like with Freeza using his hands.

Tell me what fight that looks like?

And think about who can fight without their hands and do better than Freeza. Could Vegeta do this to Zarbon without his hands?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You need more spacing here. Despite Goku forcing Freeza to use his hands, the disparity in power was present. You'd never expect a rivaling power to attempt such a feat.

Goku vs no hands Freeza was clearly closer than Goku vs Cell.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Goku vs no hands Freeza was clearly closer than Goku vs Cell.

Cell did appear to have a larger speed difference, but how effective would Cell have been without his hands? He could have beat Goku without his hands?

 

[SSJ2]

The instant Freeza started using his hands Goku was put down. If that fight continues, it's a brutal beat down.

Goku was put down, but he got back up right away and seemed pretty unbothered. It wasn't the sort of gap where Freeza could one shot him by any means.

It looks like equal speed while one person has cut their offensive weapons in half. That means there needs to be quite a sizeable advantage.

You have to imagine what the fight looks like with Freeza using his hands.

Tell me what fight that looks like?

Sure, but Freeza being taken by surprise by Goku's speed shouldn't be any different if he was using his hands or not.

Well, it would definitely be more in Freeza's favour, that's for sure.

And think about who can fight without their hands and do better than Freeza. Could Vegeta do this to Zarbon without his hands?

I think it's important to point out that Freeza had the luxury of having a huge amount of his power in reserve. Nobody else would be sane enough to try this unless they had a multifold advantage over the opponent, like Vegetto vs Gohan Boo.

I could see Vegeta vs Zarbon going similarly. Vegeta thought Zarbon was literally standing still when they fought, that's how big the gap was between them. He could probably do pretty well without his hands.

 

[FeatsofPower]

could see Vegeta vs Zarbon going similarly. Vegeta thought Zarbon was literally standing still when they fought, that's how big the gap was between them. He could probably do pretty well without his hands.

So Vegeta loses without his hands?

 

[SSJ2]

So Vegeta loses without his hands?

It's impossible to say. Realistically he should have enough of a power advantage to beat Zarbon. It would be a closer fight but Zarbon wouldn't be able to defend against that level of power for too long.

 

[FeatsofPower]

It's impossible to say. Realistically he should have enough of a power advantage to beat Zarbon. It would be a closer fight but Zarbon wouldn't be able to defend against that level of power for too long.

Could Cell beat Goku without his hands?

 

[SSJ2]

Could Cell beat Goku without his hands?

No... that would be cutting it too close.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku and Freeza are matching each other blow by blow. If one dodges, the other dodges. When one hits, the other hits back. In the end he got overwhelmed and had to use his hand.

Also worth pointing out Freeza only landed hits with his tail. That’s sort of an advantage, right? Zarbon and Cell don’t have tails.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Cell did appear to have a larger speed difference, but how effective would Cell have been without his hands? He could have beat Goku without his hands?

Goku was stated to be 2 steps < Cell while Piccolo ain't sure about what kind of outcome Goku vs Freeza could produce, so there's that imo. So he possibly can do it with a lot of complication.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Cell did have a tail, he just have it hidden.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Krillin
-power level- 75,000

This can’t be right. Krillen must be far stronger, try doubling it.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Piccolo (pre Nail fusion)
-power level- 480,

He shouldn’t be quite this strong. Piccolo and Kami merging bring him to around 530k or a bit more so how much of a boost are you giving him for Kami?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@FeatsofPower

As of now, I'm thinking on Krillin being at 90k can work, that's the best I can give to him and I was just basing on the V-Jump power levels.

I have Kamiccolo 3x stronger than Pre Kamiccolo when both are w/o weights (in a rounded number). I also doesn't like how Piccolo ended up being quite strong Pre Nail to Post Nail but everything we have is him being weaker than 1st form Freeza.

 

[FeatsofPower]

As of now, I'm thinking on Krillin being at 90k can work, that's the best I can give to him and I was just basing on the V-Jump power levels.

He has to be strong enough to help against 530,000 Freeza. At 90k, he'd only be around 17%.

This is far too low and remember this statement comes from Vegeta of all people. A character who goes out of his way to remind you of how useless you are every chance he gets.

17% just won't cut it.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@FeatsofPower

What about the possibility of Kienzan being able to help with Krillin's power being relevant or Vegeta factoring in an Gohan's rage boost? Vegeta by himself is too close and they can defeat Freeza altogether.

Because if Krillin is 150k that'd be overkill.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I have Kamiccolo 3x stronger than Pre Kamiccolo when both are w/o weights (in a rounded number). I also doesn't like how Piccolo ended up being quite strong Pre Nail to Post Nail but everything we have is him being weaker than 1st form Freeza.

This is an error as well. Nail thinks Kamiccolo only MIGHT be able to beat 530,000 Freeza. So however big you have the boost for Kami, you must divide from there.

We usually go with 550,000 as a good round number for Nail's comment, which would make Piccolo 183,000 or so.

Everything we have is him being weaker than 1st Form Freeza? Yes indeed, and he should be significantly weaker, but it does seem implied he is stronger than Gohan and Krillen as well.

Here's the appropriate chain to work with.


Kamiccolo >= Freeza > Piccolo > Gohan > Krillen

I definitely recommend using the same boost for Kamiccolo in the Androids Saga as the Freeza Saga as well.

Numerically this is how it works out.

Kamiccolo (W/Weights) 550,000
Freeza 530,000
Piccolo 275,000
Gohan 250,000
Krillen 200,000

Kami provides a 2x boost for Piccolo in Freeza and Androids Saga.