21st Yamcha vs Colonel Silver

[SSJ2]

Who wins? Both had relatively similar speed feats. Yamcha's WFF made Roshi get more serious and put him on alert. Silver managed to speed blitz Goku.

 

[OfficerPorch]

When did Silver speed blitz Goku?
On panel, Goku realizes immediately that
Silver took his stuff.
Goku demonstrates the speed blitz immediately afterwards.

Goku no diff’d Silver and bitch slapped him with his tail.
Yamcha should easily beat Silver imo.
He seems like peak human level but not
in the same class as Yamcha/1st appearance Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

Isn't Goku saying that he has to keep his guard up after stealing back the radar?

 

[Power Level Guy]

I have always kept them as equals. So one of the ongoing trends I see with Dragonball is that next sagas low status guys usually end up matching the previous sagas higher end guys.

Goku having to use that much effort to regain the Dragonball is a huge feat for Silver as well as him being able to actually steal it in the first place.

This is a major feat. This is enough for me to make him that strong.

 

[OfficerPorch]

View attachment 4168

Isn't Goku saying that he has to keep his guard up after stealing back the radar?

It’s an old Japanese saying or proverb.
It’s not to be taken literally.

We see Goku in the next panel doing the exact opposite of what he said, he turns his back to Silver and proceeds to dodge all his attacks effortlessly without even looking.

Do note that he hasn’t received Popos training and can’t read movements via Ki yet. The gap is massive.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Who wins? Both had relatively similar speed feats. Yamcha's WFF made Roshi get more serious and put him on alert. Silver managed to speed blitz Goku.

This is a great comparison. Hey, you might have just made the argument that Silver should be more in line with WFF than Yamcha.

Yamcha prob can't do this feat to Jackie Chun. But WFF Yamcha can.

So yeah, I'd say Roshi > WFF Yamcha ~ Goku > Silver here. I hadn't seen that connection before, that's a good one. Thanks.

 

[Power Level Guy]

We see Goku in the next panel doing the exact opposite, he turns his back to Silver and proceeds to doge all his attacks effortlessly.

He's saying that there's a tremendous gap here, but it's closer than other tremendous gaps.

WFF vs Chun is a great example. Being able to catch Goku off guard is a legit feat. What other scenario can we compare this to?

I'm drawing a blank right now. Can you give an example of another character doing this?

Ah, you know when Gohan snatches the sensu beans from Cell? Can you imagine Cell snatching them from Gohan? I can't.

Which inferior fighter can replicate this feat? Or do you think it's no big deal and any weaker fighter can do it?

 

[OfficerPorch]

He's saying that there's a tremendous gap here, but it's closer than other tremendous gaps.

WFF vs Chun is a great example. Being able to catch Goku off guard is a legit feat. What other scenario can we compare this to?

I'm drawing a blank right now. Can you give an example of another character doing this?

Ah, you know when Gohan snatches the sensu beans from Cell? Can you imagine Cell snatching them from Gohan? I can't.

Which inferior fighter can replicate this feat? Or do you think it's no big deal and any weaker fighter can do it?

Re-read my post it’s edited.

DBZ feats are not comparable since the majority don’t rely on visual movementsit’s all based on feeling ki.
Kid Gokus naïveté can be explained as to why Silver could take the DBs from him while his guard is down.

Goku notices the DB taken on the same exact panel as the DB/radar are being taken from him by Silver. = not a speedblitz

It took Silver a minute to register that Goku retook the stolen item. =Speed blitz

When using Cell/SSJ2 Gohan and the senzu situation, it is the same, it took a moment for Cell to register the fact that Gohan took back the beans, that’s a speed blitz feat.

 

[OfficerPorch]

Note that Goku is blind sided and has taken damage earlier.

We also see Gokus back is clearly turned away from Silver as well when the DB is taken=off guard.
We’ve seen Freeza and Fat Buu blind sided from behind by much weaker fighters before.

 

[Power Level Guy]

We’ve seen Freeza and Fat Buu blind sided from behind by much weaker fighters before.

Well this is where I'd like to explore. Are you saying Silver vs Goku here is more like SSJ Trunks vs Fat Buu?

DBZ feats are not comparable since the majority don’t rely on visual movementsit’s all based on feeling ki.
Kid Gokus naïveté can be explained as to why Silver could take the DBs from him while his guard is down.

This is a good point. But are you saying that if this was Z Goku, Silver couldn't pull it off?

And in Z, how close do you have to be to pull off such a feat?

Monster Zarbon even though heavily damaged was able to make Vegeta fearful of his speed. Do you think it has to be close like that to pull such a feat off?

Narratively speaking, I like the idea of some random nobody in the RRA being on par with the great Yamcha. It gives the world some toughness.

 

[OfficerPorch]

Well this is where I'd like to explore. Are you saying Silver vs Goku here is more like SSJ Trunks vs Fat Buu?

Sure, or Piccolo/Kid Gohan/Krillen all each blind siding True Form Freeza.

This is a good point. But are you saying that if this was Z Goku, Silver couldn't pull it off?

He shouldn’t be able to, Z Goku doesn’t have the same level of naivety that Kid Goku does and he can read his movements with ki.

And in Z, how close do you have to be to pull off such a feat?

Hard to say, context is key.
1.8-2x gap minimum I’d say, since that should be what PC/SSJ2 Gohans gap should be around anyway.

1.5x might not pull off a blitz feat to the same level as the examples mentioned so far, I don’t think Zarbon/Vegeta is comparable.

Narratively speaking, I like the idea of some random nobody in the RRA being on par with the great Yamcha. It gives the world some toughness.

You have to think tho, do you think Silver can replicate any of first appearance Kid Goku~Roshi Training Gokus feats? Or Yamchas even?



That’s easily a building level feat, he knocked Goku through at least 3 stone pillars and Goku was fine.
Yamcha takes Gokus attack fairly well too, and durability should closely follow the output of power the character is capable of.

 

[Power Level Guy]

You have to think tho, do you think Silver can replicate any of first appearance Kid Goku~Roshi Training Gokus feats? Or Yamchas even?

Yeah, I have a bias that the next sagas low end characters rival the previous sagas high end characters. It's a pattern I see too often and then perhaps I see it even when it's not there. I think that part of AT's writing style.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Silver probably loses to Mr Satan. Not everyone in DB is superhuman level.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Silver probably loses to Mr Satan. Not everyone in DB is superhuman level.

I'd disagree with that. I'd say every named character of merit is superhuman (by our standards).

Hercule wouldn't even make it in any rogue outfit, RRA would say he's too weak, Baba wouldn't want him and the Orin Temple would reject him too.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'd disagree with that. I'd say every named character of merit is superhuman (by our standards).

Hercule wouldn't even make it in any rogue outfit, RRA would say he's too weak, Baba wouldn't want him and the Orin Temple would reject him too.

Obviously Baba and the Orin Temple won’t take him. Specially Baba.

RRA is just a militia. There’s a fair share of strong guys, but a lot of them are just normal soldiers, like White. I’m sure some of the more average no name fighters in the preliminaries are real life level as well.

 

[SSJ2]

It’s an old Japanese saying or proverb.
It’s not to be taken literally.

We see Goku in the next panel doing the exact opposite of what he said, he turns his back to Silver and proceeds to dodge all his attacks effortlessly without even looking.

Do note that he hasn’t received Popos training and can’t read movements via Ki yet. The gap is massive.

Fair enough on the quote. I'd still argue the feat is moderately impressive though. Imagine you're walking down the road and someone starts sprinting full blast at you from behind. Surely you'd hear that fast enough to react to the situation. Goku didn't even turn around or acknowledge the situation until the bag was stolen.

 

[Power Level Guy]

RRA is just a militia. There’s a fair share of strong guys, but a lot of them are just normal soldiers, like White. I’m sure some of the more average no name fighters in the preliminaries are real life level as well.

I'm saying in terms of the supernatural characters. Mr. Satan would probably be like some sort of propaganda guy or something, but his strength wouldn't be enough to be anyone of note. RRA has tons of supernatural guys.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

2 It’s definitely not something you and I could pull off. Farmer with Shotgun probably wouldn’t either. Satan? I can kinda see it. It’s an off guard feat, you don’t have to be close. If Yamcha charged Goku from behind like that he’d get some good licks (but Goku would be unharmed obviously).

I'm saying in terms of the supernatural characters. Mr. Satan would probably be like some sort of propaganda guy or something, but his strength wouldn't be enough to be anyone of note. RRA has tons of supernatural guys.

If you think about it, not really. It’s just Blue and Black. Silver is indeed impressive, but if he’s superhuman then I’d say just Captain America level. Murasaki is a ninja, but he freaks out when he sees Goku doing superhuman stuff. I think he’s the strongest of the normies since he’s a real ninja though. White was crying because Goku tapped him. The rest are nameless thugs, the average military.

I remember some furries on the army too. You know, the animal people from the dragon world. You think a tiger man is stronger than a normal guy?

 

[Power Level Guy]

2 It’s definitely not something you and I could pull off. Farmer with Shotgun probably wouldn’t either. Satan? I can kinda see it. It’s an off guard feat, you don’t have to be close. If Yamcha charged Goku from behind like that he’d get some good licks (but Goku would be unharmed obviously).

Well we do have Chichi catching Roshi off guard. But Chi Chi got some real power.

Hercule can't do anything to anyone. He's literally just a normal guy. Peak human, but we have people on Earth right now who would beat him up most likely.

You gotta remember what a monster Kid Goku is right here. He's one of the strongest people on the entire planet at this point. He's stronger than Roshi right now.

If you think about it, not really. It’s just Blue and Black. Silver is indeed impressive, but if he’s superhuman then I’d say just Captain America level. Murasaki is a ninja, but he freaks out when he sees Goku doing superhuman stuff. I think he’s the strongest of the normies since he’s a real ninja though. White was crying because Goku tapped him. The rest are nameless thugs, the average military.

No, there are tons of superhumans in RRA. That Castle Guard is definitely superhuman. Everyone in Muscle Tower is superhuman except General White.

Ninja Murasaki is probably Krillen level.
Sergeant Metallic is monstrously powerful.
Kid Goku requires effort to speed blitz Silver.
General Blue is super powerful. Tao Pai Pai is contracted by them and perhaps the strongest in the world at the time.

You think a tiger man is stronger than a normal guy?

No, in Dragonball the various races have been humanized. Animals should only be prioritized based on their size. For example, in the anime that Andre the Giant lookalike should be smashing damn near every animal.

The best way to understand power level in DB for the natural world is to assume size is indicative of power level.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Well we do have Chichi catching Roshi off guard. But Chi Chi got some real power.

Hercule can't do anything to anyone. He's literally just a normal guy. Peak human, but we have people on Earth right now who would beat him up most likely.

You gotta remember what a monster Kid Goku is right here. He's one of the strongest people on the entire planet at this point. He's stronger than Roshi right now.

I think @OfficerPorch has aleeady cleared this one up. What Silver did is hardly impressive.

No, there are tons of superhumans in RRA. That Castle Guard is definitely superhuman. Everyone in Muscle Tower is superhuman except General White.

Ninja Murasaki is probably Krillen level.
Sergeant Metallic is monstrously powerful.
Kid Goku requires effort to speed blitz Silver.
General Blue is super powerful. Tao Pai Pai is contracted by them and perhaps the strongest in the world at the time.

Murasaki saw Goku jumping several feat in the air and crapped himself. That’s a feat even Kuririn can do. Sergeant Metallic is an android. Kid Goku tail slapped Silver lol, he didn’t need effort for anything.

The best way to understand power level in DB for the natural world is to assume size is indicative of power level.

One of Toriyama’s biggest writing rules is to NOT have size be indicative of power level. That’s the author’s mindset here.