21st Yamcha vs Colonel Silver

[Power Level Guy]

I think @OfficerPorch has aleeady cleared this one up. What Silver did is hardly impressive.

For me, it's a legit feat. I don't see any regular human being capable of doing so. This is a beyond Roshi level fighter, to do anything to him should mean something big. I'll have to disagree with you guys here on that one. AT didn't write this in for no reason, the entire purpose of the scene is to show Silver off and how powerful and fast he is.

Murasaki saw Goku jumping several feat in the air and crapped himself. That’s a feat even Kuririn can do.

Yeah, I think Murasaki is around Krillen or so.

Kid Goku tail slapped Silver lol, he didn’t need effort for anything.

Yeah Roshi with nowhere close to his full power literally chopped the air and sent Yamcha flying lol.

One of Toriyama’s biggest writing rules is to NOT have size be indicative of power level. That’s the author’s mindset here.

This isn't true at all. There is a natural world where normal things occur. And then there are special being who break the mold. The dinosaurs mop the floor with the humans because they are larger. Tigers, bears, and other beast animals who are not humanoid will run through all of the humans easily as well. People aren't wondering if a giant ape can possibly beat them because size doesn't matter. Size does matter.

Now there are specialty characters where these traditional norms don't apply. That is true, but you are overly focusing on those being the norm, when they clearly are not.

 

[Animelover5487]

Sure, or Piccolo/Kid Gohan/Krillen all each blind siding True Form Freeza.



He shouldn’t be able to, Z Goku doesn’t have the same level of naivety that Kid Goku does and he can read his movements with ki.



Hard to say, context is key.
1.8-2x gap minimum I’d say, since that should be what PC/SSJ2 Gohans gap should be around anyway.

1.5x might not pull off a blitz feat to the same level as the examples mentioned so far, I don’t think Zarbon/Vegeta is comparable.

You have to think tho, do you think Silver can replicate any of first appearance Kid Goku~Roshi Training Gokus feats? Or Yamchas even?


View attachment 4172
That’s easily a building level feat, he knocked Goku through at least 3 stone pillars and Goku was fine.
Yamcha takes Gokus attack fairly well too, and durability should closely follow the output of power the character is capable of.

I think the stone pillars is an outlier or just there for gag since it was shown as a wall break. Giran shit himself after he saw Tailed Goku break the tournament wall.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think the stone pillars is an outlier or just there for gag since it was shown as a wall break. Giran shit himself after he saw Tailed Goku break the tournament wall.

Yeah, I was feeling the same way. Those pillars are not as legit as a feat as some other minor feats. Kicking the wall seemed to be a next level feat, this clear goes way beyond that. Outlier feat that shouldn't be taken seriously. Good call.

 

[OfficerPorch]

I think the stone pillars is an outlier or just there for gag since it was shown as a wall break. Giran shit himself after he saw Tailed Goku break the tournament wall.

How? the feat isn’t outlandish at all considering what first appearance Goku could do, and what he could do after briefly training with Roshi.

Giran didn’t expect a 3ft child to break
a thick stone wall, Pamput did a similar feat later in the series.

Yeah, I was feeling the same way. Those pillars are not as legit as a feat as some other minor feats. Kicking the wall seemed to be a next level feat, this clear goes way beyond that. Outlier feat that shouldn't be taken seriously. Good call.

Nah, that’s like saying Roshis moon busting is an outlier. It’s cope.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Giran didn’t expect a 3ft child to break
a thick stone wall, Pamput did a similar feat later in the series.

Giran is much stronger than Initial Yamcha. Giran should be able to break that wall easily. It's not about Goku being a child, it's about Goku's pure strength. It's a feat of strength and Panput should be on par with Goku's previous strength.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Nah, that’s like saying Roshis moon busting is an outlier. It’s cope.

I think Roshi's feat is legit, but I get what you are saying.

 

[Animelover5487]

How? the feat isn’t outlandish at all considering what first appearance Goku could do, and what he could do after briefly training with Roshi.

Giran didn’t expect a 3ft child to break
a thick stone wall, Pamput did a similar feat later in the series.


Nah, that’s like saying Roshis moon busting is an outlier. It’s cope.

Pilaf arc Goku is very strong but not building level strong. Pamput was stated to be at the peak of the "human wall" while Roshi said Pre 21st Goku was still within that same "human wall". Goku being a small child is irrelevant, Giran already knew Goku was stronger than him, that's why he resorted to the Gum. Goku being able to break the gum, as well as the tournament wall is what made him quit. He had no chance.

Also later on during the Red Ribbon Army arc Goku was impressed with Eighter's strength after he destroyed Musle Tower and said that he was much stronger than him, so yeah Goku wasn't building level.

I think Roshi's moon busting was an outlier but that's another argument for another day lol.

 

[OfficerPorch]

Giran is much stronger than Initial Yamcha. Giran should be able to break that wall easily. It's not about Goku being a child, it's about Goku's pure strength. It's a feat of strength and Panput should be on par with Goku's previous strength.

How is it not about Goku being a child?
Would you not be surprised if a small child
broke through a 2-3 foot thick wall casually?

Mind you there’s no Ki sensing in the series yet, so we’re still going with visual gauging here.

Also, what feats does Giran have from the manga that scales heavily above Yamcha?
He knocks Goku around, but we know Goku doesn’t use a significant amount of his abilities until he fights Nam and Chun much later on.

 

[OfficerPorch]

Pilaf arc Goku is very strong but not building level strong. Pamput was stated to be at the peak of the "human wall" while Roshi said Pre 21st Goku was still within that same "human wall". Goku being a small child is irrelevant, Giran already knew Goku was stronger than him, that's why he resorted to the Gum. Goku being able to break the gum, as well as the tournament wall is what made him quit. He had no chance.

Also later on during the Red Ribbon Army arc Goku was impressed with Eighter's strength after he destroyed Musle Tower and said that he was much stronger than him, so yeah Goku wasn't building level.

I think Roshi's moon busting was an outlier but that's another argument for another day lol.

Just because Eighters scales higher doesn’t neg Yamchas feat so I’m not sure why it’s being brought up here.

Why is Giran even being brought up?
He scales in line with the low tier characters in the early DB~21st Budokai/RR characters anyways so I’m not getting the comparison.
The powerscaling is pretty conservative at this point in the series.

If you count Roshis feat as an outlier then I don’t see myself debating with you lol.

 

[Animelover5487]

How is it not about Goku being a child?
Would you not be surprised if a small child
broke through a 2-3 foot thick wall casually?

Mind you there’s no Ki sensing in the series yet, so we’re still going with visual gauging here.

Also, what feats does Giran have from the manga that scales heavily above Yamcha?
He knocks Goku around, but we know Goku doesn’t use a significant amount of his abilities until he fights Nam and Chun much later on.

Giran wasn't just surprised. He quit though. The feat was portrayed to be on the same level as Goku breaking the gum which he couldn't do without his tail.

Giran did better against Goku then Yamcha did against Chun. Giran was atleast able to atleast react, block and take hits from Goku, Chun was beating Yamcha while barely paying him any attention and smacked him out of the ring with a wave of his hand.

Also in the anime Giran is shown outright tanking Yamcha.

Tailed Goku = Chun (Serious) > Nam > Chun (Holding Back) > Tailless Goku > Kuririn >> Giran >> Yamcha

 

[OfficerPorch]

Giran wasn't just surprised. He quit though. The feat was portrayed to be on the same level as Goku breaking the gum which he couldn't do without his tail.

K.
So how does this conclude Yamchas feat an outlier?

Im sure that you realize there are varying degrees of tiers within the same Attack potency/durability ranges, right?
This is like saying a character isn’t planetary range just because he’s only busted a small planet like Earth, it’s nonsense.

Tailed Goku = Chun (Serious) > Nam > Chun (Holding Back) > Tailless Goku > Kuririn >> Giran >> Yamcha

You have too many “>” in your chain, the power scaling isn’t that absurd, yet.

Several casual wall busting attacks like the one Goku showcased against Giran could easily debilitate a Wall~small building level character which these characters fall under.

Giran did better against Goku then Yamcha did against Chun. Giran was atleast able to atleast react, block and take hits from Goku, Chun was beating Yamcha while barely paying him any attention and smacked him out of the ring with a wave of his hand.

These fights are not comparable in the slightest due to how different the characters are with morals on.
Roshi didn't screw around with Chun to the same extent Goku did with Giran.

The low end calc to first appearance Yamcha is wall level, so I can give you that much.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah Roshi with nowhere close to his full power literally chopped the air and sent Yamcha flying lol.

Yamcha wasn’t KO’d/killed by it though. He was just moved.

 

[OfficerPorch]

Yamcha wasn’t KO’d/killed by it though. He was just moved.

Yeah he just got outplayed more or less tbh

 

[Power Level Guy]

Sent flying by an air chop lol