22nd Budokai Discussion

[p123]

Alright I'm making a new list, so whenever I run into trouble about a saga I'll ask for some help here. One of the most difficult sagas to do in the series imo.

Alright, let's see what we got.


King Chappa- If Goku is really on, he may squeak by. Goku from Baba's Tournament I would assume.

Goku- The power he used to defeat Chappa seems to be above both Krillen and Yamcha, they are shocked anyone could beat Chappa so easily.


That's what I'll start out with. Let's fill in the rest.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah. I think Chappa should be above Goku's level from Baba's tournament for sure. The gang took into account that Goku had trained for 3 years, and they were still worried for him.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2041661-proving-chappa-22nd-stronger-than-son-gohan/

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Goku- The power he used to defeat Chappa seems to be above both Krillen and Yamcha, they are shocked anyone could beat Chappa so easily.

Goku stated that power was not nearly his max, yet Krillin still hoped he could beat him.

 

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku- The power he used to defeat Chappa seems to be above both Krillen and Yamcha, they are shocked anyone could beat Chappa so easily.

Goku stated that power was not nearly his max, yet Krillin still hoped he could beat him.

Key word:

Hoped...

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Goku- The power he used to defeat Chappa seems to be above both Krillen and Yamcha, they are shocked anyone could beat Chappa so easily.

Goku stated that power was not nearly his max, yet Krillin still hoped he could beat him.

Key word:

Hoped...

Nah, he out-right said he can win later.

 

[Six Trails]

He had confidence, actually.

Ninja'd.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Ninja'd.

 

[p123]

False confidence clearly. They aren't far away from CHappa as far as I can see.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

False confidence clearly. They aren't far away from CHappa as far as I can see.

It wasn't false confidence, really. The way it's portrayed, definitely doesn't make it seem like it. I think AT might have just retconed it.

 

[p123]

You could be right. After Chappa is defeated, it's clear that Yamcha and Krillen can't win. But I think the guy is still writing a story, so he has to make it at least a little interesting.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Basically that. He wrote it in a weekly format, and didn't even plan that much, so he probably just did what he wanted to, for the most part.

 

[p123]

So pick your poison, which way are you going to lean here?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I'll go with the ''retcon'', since their first shock can be explained by Chappa being overestimated because of
his reputation.

 

[p123]

Chappa was absolutely not overestimated. And there are countless quotes suggesting they do not believe they have a chance. You know what, you guys are so dumb. Fuck y'all.

There a billion quotes here. From the get go.

They base their confidence on GOKU NOT GETTING ANY STRONGER. I'm reading along with it now and kind find any quotes other than them saying " My asshole is not ready ".

Fuck you guys. Withheld check your PL list I got a surprise fuck you for you there hahaha

 

[ahill1]

Definitely agreed; Yamcha said something like : " Goku is in trouble, but he might pull it off "... that is, Goku is a bit outmatched in speed and in strength, but knowing Goku, he might win. I think 87~88% is a perfect gap for this type of situation.

You would think that Goku ( Vs Chappa ) is considerably stronger than Goku ( Uranai Baba ); look at Roshi's and co. reaction... Kuririn even dared to say that was Goku's full power.

I think that a 1.2x gap between Chappa and Goku ( initial ) is enough. I mean, that was Vegeta vs. Dodoria. Yamcha should be a bit weaker than Goku, since he did not think anyone could defeat Chappa like Son did. I'd have :

Tao Pai Pai 370
Goku ( Post Karin ) 420
Chappa 480
Yamcha ( 22nd Budokai ) 554
Kuririn 570
Goku ( initial ) 576


Chaozu should be between Chappa and Yamcha. I'd say Chaozu being 94% of Kuririn is fine. Observe the flow of the fight. Chaozu could put up a good fight, but Krillin had advantage in hand-to-hand combat, which forced Chaozu using his psychic powers.

After this, Goku increased his effort against Kuririn and went to easily gain the advantage. I'd say Goku ( Increased effort ) is 1.2~1.25x stronger than Kuririn. Goku ( Increased effort ) being on Tsuru's level sounds right to me.

So Goku increased his speed and used his Full Match Level, and even Roshi said Goku might have surpassed him.

Roshi : " I have a feeling he may have even passed me already "

The gap should not be big since Roshi is not so sure about this.

So is showed that Goku is using only his Match Level against Tenshinhan. So all in all :

Goku ( Full Power ) >= Tenshinhan ( Full Power ) > Goku ( Full Match Level ) > Roshi ( Unseen Full Power ) > Roshi ( Vs Tenshinhan ) > Tsuru ~ Goku ( Little More Effort ) > Goku ( Initial ) >= Kuririn >= Yamcha >= Chaozu > Chappa > Goku ( Uranai Baba Saga ). In numbers :

Goku ( Uranai Baba ) 420
Chappa 480
Chaozu 536
Yamcha 554
Kuririn 570
Goku ( Initial ) 576
Goku ( Little More Effort ) 710
Tsuru 710
Roshi ( Vs Tenshinhan ) 760
Roshi ( Unseen Full Power ) 850
Goku ( Full Match Level ) 900
Tenshinhan ( Full Power ) 1,000
Goku ( Full Power ) 1,020

 

[p123]

Goku doesn't seem to be vastly superior to Chappa either. He's around 1.2x or less, he's not 1.33x.

Krillen and Yamcha admit they are not at that level.

 

[Animelover5487]

Didn't Chappa block one of Goku's attacks?

 

[p123]

No



Ok guys so as far as I can see...


Goku ( Initial ) >= Krillen >= Yamcha >= King Chappa


Also, it appears that Tien does count it, three power ups vs Yamcha. Agreed?

 

[Animelover5487]

Yeah I took a quick peak at the manga and he doesn't. I believe in the anime he does though.

Anyway, I generally go with Tien being equaling to Yamcha at the start of the fight and then increasing his effort near the end to deflect his Kamehameha and easily KO him.

 

[ahill1]

The gap between Goku ( Full Power ) and Roshi should be small or pretty big ?