80% Freeza VS SSjin Vegeta

[Let's Go Fearless!]

No strain for either of them.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Vegeta would at best be around 50% Freeza imo. Freeza impales Vegeta on his tail.

 

[freezamite]

I think Vegeta takes this. Of course, FPSSJin Vegeta from the Bu saga or later, since any other form of SSJ Vegeta would be curb-stomped by an 80% Freezer.

 

[Keedounan]

I think Vegeta takes this. Of course, FPSSJin Vegeta from the Bu saga or later, since any other form of SSJ Vegeta would be curb-stomped by an 80% Freezer.

Lmao.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

Frieza takes this easily. If there was strain Getes might have a chance, but he's barely more than half Frieza's power.

 

[Void]

Freeza Would win with high difficulty, assuming he doesn't have any huge stamina drains.

 

[Jerk Store]

I see them as near equals considering Vegeta was most likely at the very least 2,000,000 post zenkai against final form Freeza. X50 would be 100,000,000...... 80% Freeza is 96,000,000 if you use his 120,000,000 100% number, make it an even 100 mill if you wanna round it off, whatever.

Vegeta's enraged SSJ state and skill compared to Freeza, especially that of sensing ki, and not being as merciful as Goku, I'd say Vegeta would win with minor difficulty.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I see them as near equals considering Vegeta was most likely at the very least 2,000,000 post zenkai against final form Freeza. X50 would be 100,000,000...... 80% Freeza is 96,000,000 if you use his 120,000,000 100% number, make it an even 100 mill if you wanna round it off, whatever.

Vegeta's enraged SSJ state and skill compared to Freeza, especially that of sensing ki, and not being as merciful as Goku, I'd say Vegeta would win with minor difficulty.

So you don't buy 140/150 gap of Goku and Freeza?

 

[SSJ2]

From 17 Nov 2015, 11:33

Vegeta: 3,600,000
SSJ: 180,000,000

Freeza: 247,500,000
80%: 198,000,000

Vegeta puts up a solid effort but gets beaten down. Freeza shouldn't have much strain at 80%

 

[Jerk Store]

I see them as near equals considering Vegeta was most likely at the very least 2,000,000 post zenkai against final form Freeza. X50 would be 100,000,000...... 80% Freeza is 96,000,000 if you use his 120,000,000 100% number, make it an even 100 mill if you wanna round it off, whatever.

Vegeta's enraged SSJ state and skill compared to Freeza, especially that of sensing ki, and not being as merciful as Goku, I'd say Vegeta would win with minor difficulty.

So you don't buy 140/150 gap of Goku and Freeza?

If people wanna use those numbers then they can, and if they do, then I can see why Vegeta would lose in their estimations, but I don't see an issue with the daiz numbers for Freeza. Freeza did ok, but didnt do that well against SSJ Goku IMO, plus logically speaking, due to strain, I doubt Goku was still 150 million when Freeza went 100% anyway, maybe 130 million. Hell, I don't even see how SSJ Goku could be 150 million after taking such damage before going SSJ, but I guess going SSJ the first time gave him a zenkai?

Same with Oozaru Vegeta in the Saiyajin arc... He wasn't no 180k in that battle because he took damage and used up ki, so was less than 18k when he transformed, and Oozaru doesn't give a zenkai boost or healing factor when used. The Daiz numbers are flawed and I don't always agree with them either, but I am just saying, logically, if people don't like the daiz numbers, if anything they should be lowered in these situations, not increased.

But whatever, it's a cartoon. Lol

 

[freezamite]

I think Vegeta takes this. Of course, FPSSJin Vegeta from the Bu saga or later, since any other form of SSJ Vegeta would be curb-stomped by an 80% Freezer.

Lmao.

Try reading the manga, it's really fun and to some DB fans what matters the most without any kind of doubt.

If people wanna use those numbers then they can, and if they do, then I can see why Vegeta would lose in their estimations, but I don't see an issue with the daiz numbers for Freeza.

So you are saying that it's ok for the difference between SSJ Goku and 100% Freezer to be proportionally larger than the difference between Vegeta and Dodoria?
150 for SSJ Goku and 140 for 100% Freezer already breaks nearly any internal rule of the manga and ignores nearly everything that's written regarding that fight, but at least it takes into account what happened in that fight and tries to reduce the power-gap between Goku and Freezer (although 150 100% Freezer and 140 SSJ Goku would make more sense consdiering the one constantly loosing power was Freezer and not Goku).

150 for SSJ Goku and 120 for 100% Freezer seems what someone in Toei would write.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

So you are saying that it's ok for the difference between SSJ Goku and 100% Freezer to be proportionally larger than the difference between Vegeta and Dodoria?
150 for SSJ Goku and 140 for 100% Freezer already breaks nearly any internal rule of the manga and ignores nearly everything that's written regarding that fight, but at least it takes into account what happened in that fight and tries to reduce the power-gap between Goku and Freezer (although 150 100% Freezer and 140 SSJ Goku would make more sense consdiering the one constantly loosing power was Freezer and not Goku).

150 for SSJ Goku and 120 for 100% Freezer seems what someone in Toei would write.

I've waited a year for someone other than me to bring this up. Putting Frieza at 150 mil would solve both the "Kaio-Ken x20 Goku = 50% Frieza" problem and the "SSJ Goku can curbstomp Frieza" problem.

 

[Jerk Store]

In the end it doesn't really matter.

 

[Keedounan]

I think Vegeta takes this. Of course, FPSSJin Vegeta from the Bu saga or later, since any other form of SSJ Vegeta would be curb-stomped by an 80% Freezer.

Lmao.

Try reading the manga, it's really fun and to some DB fans what matters the most without any kind of doubt.

Could you tell me with a straight face that I would bother being here without reading the manga first?

Anyways, I've read the manga, and what you're saying still doesn't make any sense.

You've said that SSJ Vegeta (Pre-Boo arc) and Semi-Perfect Cell would get stomped by Frieza (80 %), yet you think that SSJ Goku (Namek arc) is at 140 million, which is VERY close to the 150 millions that you have for Frieza. Just so we're clear:

Semi-Perfect Cell > Imperfect Cell (Post-Gingertown) = N°16 > Kamiccolo = N°17 > N°18 > SSJ Vegeta (Android arc) > SSJ Goku (Android arc) > SSJ Trunks (Android arc) > SSJ Goku (Yardrat) > SSJ Trunks (Mecha Frieza arc) > Mecha Frieza > SSJ Goku (Namek arc) ~ Frieza (100%)

The chain was made through explicit trainings, statements and feats, all in the manga. Take your own advice and try to read the manga.

 

[freezamite]

So you are saying that it's ok for the difference between SSJ Goku and 100% Freezer to be proportionally larger than the difference between Vegeta and Dodoria?
150 for SSJ Goku and 140 for 100% Freezer already breaks nearly any internal rule of the manga and ignores nearly everything that's written regarding that fight, but at least it takes into account what happened in that fight and tries to reduce the power-gap between Goku and Freezer (although 150 100% Freezer and 140 SSJ Goku would make more sense consdiering the one constantly loosing power was Freezer and not Goku).

150 for SSJ Goku and 120 for 100% Freezer seems what someone in Toei would write.

I've waited a year for someone other than me to bring this up. Putting Frieza at 150 mil would solve both the "Kaio-Ken x20 Goku = 50% Frieza" problem and the "SSJ Goku can curbstomp Frieza" problem.

Yes, 150 million Freezer would be even better than those other options if one thinks that SSJ Goku was 150 as well, but it still has a lots of problems:
1. It doesn't take into account the most basic rule in Dragon Ball: the more injured a character is, the less power he has left. Freezer's power diminished a lot after the Genkidama and even more after taking a beating from SSJ Goku while he still was at his 50% form, and his 100% form also had an abnormally big body size due to his body never having had to fight at max strength before, which would also limit 100% Freezer's power a bit more than usual. 150 million for Freezer doesn't seem to consider those facts.

2. It's already a too large number for both of those fighters. Besides using the fixed 50x multiplier for the SSJ transformation, which is probably one of the biggest errors when powerscaling in DB, it contradicts the few feats we have from the Bu and Cell sagas. 150/50 is 3.000.000 units for Goku in Namek, but since the SSJ is always a 50x multiplier every time a character becomes stronger it means it has also become stronger in his base state. That alone already contradicts the very definition of a SSJ, and the 40 tons feat from the Bu saga.

You've said that SSJ Vegeta (Pre-Boo arc) and Semi-Perfect Cell would get stomped by Frieza (80 %), yet you think that SSJ Goku (Namek arc) is at 140 million, which is VERY close to the 150 millions that you have for Frieza.

That's not what I've said. I've said that if we were forced to choose between 150 SSJ Goku & 140 100% Freezer and 150 SSJ Goku & 120 100% Freezer the first option (150 and 140), even contradicting the manga nearly as much as a power estimation can possibly contradict it, at least it considers what was shown in the fight and it's a bit better than the completely random 120 million for Freezer. And even then, 150 for Freezer and 140 for SSJ Goku would be better, because the one loosing power was Freezer and despite that he could fight SSJ Goku in equal terms until his power decreased too much.

Of course, those aren't my numbers. To me I would put SSJ Goku at 2.950.000 more or less and the 100% Freezer that fought against him at 3.050.000, with the normal 100% Freezer at 11.800.000 more or less.

Semi-Perfect Cell > Imperfect Cell (Post-Gingertown) = N°16 > Kamiccolo = N°17 > N°18 > SSJ Vegeta (Android arc) > SSJ Goku (Android arc) > SSJ Trunks (Android arc) > SSJ Goku (Yardrat) > SSJ Trunks (Mecha Frieza arc) > Mecha Frieza > SSJ Goku (Namek arc) ~ Frieza (100%)

The chain was made through explicit trainings, statements and feats, all in the manga. Take your own advice and try to read the manga.

As I've already said, that's not supported by the manga (we can discuss it again if you feel like it).
That's what the manga supports as I see it:
Freezer (100%) >> Semi-Perfect Cell > Imperfect Cell (Post-Gingertown) = Nº16 > Kamiccolo (a bit stronger but not enough to make a difference) >= Nº17 > Nº18 = SSJ Vegeta (android arc) >= SSJ Goku (Android arc) > SSJ Trunks (Android Arc) = SSJ Goku (Yadrat) = SSJ Trunks (Mecha Freezer) = SSJ Goku (Namek arc) = Freezer 100% >>>> Mecha Freezer >= Transformed Cold

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

Try reading the manga, it's really fun and to some DB fans what matters the most without any kind of doubt.

I'm fine with your opinions, but it's annoying when you assume anyone who disagrees with you hasn't read the manga. It boils down to "They disagree with me, so they aren't a true Dragon Ball fan".

 

[Papasmurf]

The guys a troll

 

[Tapion]

I'm about to quote one of the best philosophies, one of the best pieces of logic you'll ever read in your life. Be careful, you might not survive the experience.

"I don't think 50% Freeza is stronger than 2nd Form Cell, therefore i didn't read the manga."

 

[Tapion]

I'm about to quote one of the best philosophies, one of the best pieces of logic you'll ever read in your life. Be careful, you might not survive the experience.

"You don't think 50% Freeza is stronger than 2nd Form Cell, therefore you didn't read the manga."

 

[Keedounan]

That's not what I've said. I've said that if we were forced to choose between 150 SSJ Goku & 140 100% Freezer and 150 SSJ Goku & 120 100% Freezer the first option (150 and 140), even contradicting the manga nearly as much as a power estimation can possibly contradict it, at least it considers what was shown in the fight and it's a bit better than the completely random 120 million for Freezer. And even then, 150 for Freezer and 140 for SSJ Goku would be better, because the one loosing power was Freezer and despite that he could fight SSJ Goku in equal terms until his power decreased too much.

Of course, those aren't my numbers. To me I would put SSJ Goku at 2.950.000 more or less and the 100% Freezer that fought against him at 3.050.000, with the normal 100% Freezer at 11.800.000 more or less.

Frieza was at 100 % in the fight, and he lost. If you want to tell me that he got weaker because of the Genki Dama, so did Goku, because of the strain for the Kaioken x20 and getting beaten to a pulp. One might even argue that he got even weaker than Frieza since he required Piccolo's help to get up. Yet he won.

Note: Frieza's power in his 2nd form is already at over 1 million. SSJ Goku is massively stronger. 2,9M simply doesn't work for him.

As I've already said, that's not supported by the manga (we can discuss it again if you feel like it).

You've quite clearly didn't read the manga if you think so. And if you did, I'm pretty worried. And no, I don't feel like debating that with you. Last time I've checked, you don't want to believe that Frieza was fodder since Androids arc. And considering that your username is freezamite, I guess that you have a bias towards your favorite character.

Look, I like Frieza as well, he is my favorite villain in Dragon Ball, but before his training, he was weak after his arc, just like pretty much all others villains before and after him.

Freezer (100%) >> Semi-Perfect Cell > Imperfect Cell (Post-Gingertown) = Nº16 > Kamiccolo (a bit stronger but not enough to make a difference) >= Nº17 > Nº18 = SSJ Vegeta (android arc) >= SSJ Goku (Android arc) > SSJ Trunks (Android Arc) = SSJ Goku (Yadrat) = SSJ Trunks (Mecha Freezer) = SSJ Goku (Namek arc) = Freezer 100% >>>> Mecha Freezer >= Transformed Cold

So you have SSJ Goku at around 25 % of Frieza's power more or less, yet you think that Semi-Perfect Cell is weaker than Frieza (50 %)? Did the Z-Fighters slept for their supposed 3 years of training between Mecha Frieza arc and Androids arc? Or even earlier between Frieza arc or Mecha Frieza arc? Look, from Saiyan arc to Frieza arc, Goku raised his power from 416 to over millions, and that's without mentionning Kaioken and SSJ, in less than two years. Do you think that the Z-Fighters wouldn't gain much in three years?

As for the others, if freezamite is a troll, then he sure is devoted. Way too much for his own good...