A back to basics list

[GSM123]

The title makes it sounds like one of those endless lists Withheld would make, but I'm slowly reverting to my old views regarding "Super Saiyan Walls" and their irrelevance on power progression and wanted to make this Freeza - Boo Arc list.

Logically Freeza > Base Saiyans still applies here, and so does the mechanics behind mastering Super Saiyan. The numbers I give for Base Saiyans are a bit more experimental, with those stretched SSJ1 multipliers and all.

Spoiler

Battle against Freeza

Kuririn: 75,000+

Gohan: 200,000
~ Enraged: 900,000
~ Healed by Dende: 1,080,000
~ Saving Piccolo: 1,620,000

Piccolo (Weighted): 250,000
~ Merged with Nail: 1,250,000
~ Full Power: 1,500,000

Vegeta: 480,000
~ Healed by Dende: 2,400,000

Goku: 3,000,000
~ Kaio-Ken x10: 30,000,000
~ Kaio-Ken x20: 60,000,000
~ SSJ: 150,000,000

Freeza: 530,000
~ 2nd form: 1,000,001
~ Powered up: 1,200,000
~ Full Power: 1,440,000
~ 3rd form: 1,800,000
~ Final form: 2,400,000
~ True power: 3,600,000
~ 50%: 72,000,000
~ 70%: 100,800,000
~ 100%: 144,000,000

Genki-Dama: 180,000,000

Freeza's Revenge

Cyborg Freeza: 100,000,000
~ Full Power: 160,000,000

King Cold: 120,000,000

Trunks: 5,000,000
~ SSJ: 250,000,000

Goku: 6,000,000
~ SSJ: 300,000,000

The Future

Gohan: 4,800,000
~ SSJ: 240,000,000

Android 17: 192,000,000
~ Full Power: 480,000,000

Android 18: 400,000,000

The Artificial Humans

Goku: 7,800,000
~ SSJ: 390,000,000

Piccolo: 15,000,000
~ Full Power: 300,000,000
There's really no evidence that Piccolo is Super Saiyan tier, so this is just a very generous highball for the sake of the list. If you remember something besides "He's not even a Super Saiyan", I'd be glad to know.

Gohan: 7,500,000
Kuririn: 150,000
Tenshinhan: 100,000
Yamcha: 50,000
Chaozu: 10,000

Android 19: 120,000,000
~ Post absorptions: 320,000,000

Android 20: 150,000,000
~ Post absorptions: 250,000,000

Vegeta: 8,000,000
~ SSJ: 400,000,000

Trunks: 7,500,000
~ SSJ: 375,000,000

Android 18: 500,000,000
Android 17: 600,000,000
Android 16: 1,500,000,000

Android 21: Cell

Piccolo (Merged with Kami): 540,000,000
~ Full Power: 600,000,000

Cell: 450,000,000
~ Post absorptions: 1,500,000,000
~ 2nd form: 3,000,000,000
~ Full power: 3,750,000,000

Tenshinhan: 100,000
~ Shin Kikoho: 100,000,000

Vegeta (Post Rosat): 60,000,000
~ SSJ: 3,000,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 2: 5,000,000,000

Trunks (Post Rosat): 72,000,000
~ SSJ: 3,600,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 2 (Suppressed): 4,800,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 2 (Full power): 9,600,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 3: 14,400,000,000

Cell (Complete): 4,500,000,000
~ True power: 10,000,000,000
~ Power Weighted: 15,000,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan: 6.66

Goku: 60,000,000
~ SSJ (50%): 15,000,000,000
~ SSJ (Full Power): 30,000,000,000

Vegeta: 60,000,000
~ SSJ: 18,000,000,000

Trunks: 60,000,000
~ SSJ: 18,000,000,000

Piccolo: 6,000,000,000

Gohan: 72,000,000
~ SSJ: 36,000,000,000
~ SSJ (Enraged): 45,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 90,000,000,000

Cell (Powered up): 33,750,000,000
~ Full Power: 50,000,000,000
~ Power Weighted (Injured): 60,000,000,000
~ Post Self Destruct: 67,500,000,000

Cell Jrs: 18,750,000,000

Awakening of Majin Boo

Gohan: 72,000,000
~ SSJ: 36,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 72,000,000,000

Goten: 72,000,000
~ SSJ: 36,000,000,000

Trunks: 75,000,000
~ SSJ: 37,500,000,000

Vegeta: 80,000,000
~ SSJ: 40,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 80,000,000,000
~ Dark Demon Prince of Destruction: 100,000,000,000

Goku: 100,000,000
~ SSJ: 50,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 100,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 400,000,000,000

Mr Satan: 6.66
Videl: 7.5
Kuririn: 150,000
Android 18: 500,000,000
Piccolo: 6,000,000,000

Kaioshin: 30,000,000,000
Kibito: 120,000,000

:bitch (Suppressed): 6.5
~ Full power: 13,000
~ Lord: ???

Bottom Bitch Yamu: 14,000

Pocus: 45,000,000
Yakon: 112,500,000
Dabra: 6,750,000,000

Majin Boo: 80,000,000,000
~ 1st power up: 240,000,000,000
~ 2nd power up: 360,000,000,000

Gotenks: 240,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 600,000,000,000

The Mightiest Warrior

Good Boo: 120,000,000,000

Evil Boo: 240,000,000,000
~ Good absorbed: 960,000,000,000
~ True power: 4,000,000,000,000

Gotenks (Post Rosat): 1,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 2,500,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 5,000,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan: 6,000,000,000,000

Evil Boo (Gotenks absorbed): 9,000,000,000,000
~ Gohan absorbed: 10,000,000,000,000

Vegetto: 12,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 30,000,000,000,000

Final Battle

SSJ3 Goku: 400,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 80,000,000,000
Mr Boo: 240,000,000,000
Mr Satan: 6.66

Pure Boo: 396,000,000,000

Well, it looks pretty neat for me.

 

[Pyro]

Vegeta (Post Rosat): 60,000,000

Trunks (Post Rosat): 72,000,000

So you're just gonna be a stubborn asshat about this.

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta (Post Rosat): 60,000,000
~ SSJ: 3,000,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 2: 5,000,000,000

Trunks (Post Rosat): 72,000,000
~ SSJ: 3,600,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 2 (Suppressed): 4,800,000,000
~ SSJ Grade 2 (Full power): 9,600,000,000

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Leaving aside the stuff with the Base Saiyans and the MSSJ multiplier (despite supplementary material such as Super making it apparent Grade 3 >> MSSJ in raw power), there's some things here that are at best really questionable.

1. Why is the Genki Dama against Freeza stronger than his full power? All the statements make it apparent his peak power didn't lower from enduring it, which would be a stretch if it surpassed his full power when considering even someone as durable as Vegeta clearly took a significant blow to his Ki with the injuries he sustained throughout each part of the Saiyan Arc fight.

2. What's the reasoning for having enraged SSJ Gohan so far above his regular self? The only thing an angry Gohan did was knock Cell on his ass which wasn't suggested to be something he was incapable of prior when he took no damage from Cell's assault when purely on the defensive, not to mention Cell didn't note Gohan's rage when the Cell Juniors were attacking his friends to be anything major and would've been concerned with Gohan suddenly reaching a new form if his enraged SS2 self was already close to his full power. Even if trying to work with the Daizenshuu statement of Cell Game Gohan (no rage) = Boo Arc Gohan, the guide only mentions the lack of rage making Gohan's SS2 form weaker, not his SSJ self.

3. Is there any reason to have supressed :bitch and Yamu so high? I may be a supporter of the flight aura argument, but that wouldn't necessitate them even breaking 2k.

4. You made a typo with Dabura's level. Also, even going by the idea of him being weaker than Gohan (despite the evidence for the contrary), them being so far apart seems very unlikely, especially when you ignored the Daizenshuu numbers for 50-100% Freeza to fit with what the manga presents.

5. Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks seems way too far above SS3 Goku when considering Piccolo still deemed it appropriate to question Gotenks' speed and there generally being no evidence Gotenks far outstripped Galu.

6. Any reason for Base Vegetto > Gohan Boo? Sure, that applies for the anime, but there's no evidence for it manga-wise when considering Vegetto deemed it worth going SSJ straight away. I guess you could say he underestimated himself given his later statement, though that still seems a bit questionable.

 

[GSM123]

Vegeta (Post Rosat): 60,000,000

Trunks (Post Rosat): 72,000,000

So you're just gonna be a stubborn asshat about this.

I must be, for it is the truth I have sworn to uphold.

Leaving aside the stuff with the Base Saiyans and the MSSJ multiplier (despite supplementary material such as Super making it apparent Grade 3 >> MSSJ in raw power), there's some things here that are at best really questionable.

Anyone with enough control can do buffing up, it’s not something limited to unmastered Super Saiyans. Cell shows this when he’s fighting Trunks.

1. Why is the Genki Dama against Freeza stronger than his full power? All the statements make it apparent his peak power didn't lower from enduring it, which would be a stretch if it surpassed his full power when considering even someone as durable as Vegeta clearly took a significant blow to his Ki with the injuries he sustained throughout each part of the Saiyan Arc fight.

I think most people underrate this Genki-Dama massively Goku had already found that Freeza was using only half his power by this point, but still saw the Genki-Dama as a sure bet on defeating Freeza. Lowest I can see it’s power is around 100% Freeza.

The Genki-Dama that Vegeta had enough power to kill even his Oozaru self, and was noted to have lost “only” half it’s power.

2. What's the reasoning for having enraged SSJ Gohan so far above his regular self? The only thing an angry Gohan did was knock Cell on his ass which wasn't suggested to be something he was incapable of prior when he took no damage from Cell's assault when purely on the defensive, not to mention Cell didn't note Gohan's rage when the Cell Juniors were attacking his friends to be anything major and would've been concerned with Gohan suddenly reaching a new form if his enraged SS2 self was already close to his full power. Even if trying to work with the Daizenshuu statement of Cell Game Gohan (no rage) = Boo Arc Gohan, the guide only mentions the lack of rage making Gohan's SS2 form weaker, not his SSJ self.

Just trying to put together Cell mentioning Gohan’s Ki rising when he got angry and the Daizenshuu 2 statement. I suppose it is some awkward placement since he actually ends up closer to full power Cell.

When exactly do you think Gohan had his power boosted by his anger? Only during the beam struggle right?

3. Is there any reason to have supressed :bitch and Yamu so high? I may be a supporter of the flight aura argument, but that wouldn't necessitate them even breaking 2k.

The method Babidi uses to make his minions stronger is by drawing their dormant powers. Given how powerful Kuririn became when Saichoro unleashed his power, it’d seem odd to place those two as fodder to Namek Kuririn, even if Kuririn was noted to have a lot of potential.

4. You made a typo with Dabura's level. Also, even going by the idea of him being weaker than Gohan (despite the evidence for the contrary), them being so far apart seems very unlikely, especially when you ignored the Daizenshuu numbers for 50-100% Freeza to fit with what the manga presents.

Did I?

So far apart? Dabra is a 6.75 to Gohan’s 7.2. He’s like, 93-94% of his power. I considered making Dabra a well rounded 7, but that’s too close. Dabra had a weapon and still failed to do anything beyond tiring Gohan.

5. Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks seems way too far above SS3 Goku when considering Piccolo still deemed it appropriate to question Gotenks' speed and there generally being no evidence Gotenks far outstripped Galu.

Fair point. Viz also translated Piccolo’s line as “Show me what you can do”, as if he still needed to see Gotenks in action to be sure. What about making him a 450?

6. Any reason for Base Vegetto > Gohan Boo? Sure, that applies for the anime, but there's no evidence for it manga-wise when considering Vegetto deemed it worth going SSJ straight away. I guess you could say he underestimated himself given his later statement, though that still seems a bit questionable.

Well Old Kaioshin suggested Vegetto was the best possible outcome for a fusion, and he’s the guy who thought a potara merge of Goku and Gohan would be plenty against Gotenks-Boo in base. That Legendario guide also compares the two directly on Vegetto’s entry.

Vegetto himself admitted he’s stronger than he thinks, so he might have underestimated his base power. If Gohan-Boo needs to be above Vegetto for some reason, then I suppose he could just be raised. Thanks to South Kaioshin and the vagueness of the word “add”, I’m not married to the idea of Boo’s absortions being additive.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Anyone with enough control can do buffing up, it’s not something limited to unmastered Super Saiyans. Cell shows this when he’s fighting Trunks.

Guidebooks constantly treat it as a branch of SSJ rather than purely Ki buffing, so whilst it works on a similar principle it's still its own thing.

Goku had already found that Freeza was using only half his power by this point, but still saw the Genki-Dama as a sure bet on defeating Freeza. Lowest I can see it’s power is around 100% Freeza.

He considered it his only option, not a surefire option. Moreover, he wasn't expecting Freeza to jump straight to 100% either, something validated by him not being surprised Freeza was taking as long as he did to reach 100% from 70%.

The Genki-Dama that Vegeta had enough power to kill even his Oozaru self, and was noted to have lost “only” half it’s power.

His Oozaru self after having taken a lot of damage from the KKx4 Kamehameha and having expended his Ki further on a Power Ball.

When exactly do you think Gohan had his power boosted by his anger? Only during the beam struggle right?

That's the only one that'd fit with what the Daizenshuu and Boo Arc implications suggest. He could've potentially gained a slight one when watching the Cell Juniors, but Cell not giving it much thought shows it was minimal at best.

The method Babidi uses to make his minions stronger is by drawing their dormant powers. Given how powerful Kuririn became when Saichoro unleashed his power, it’d seem odd to place those two as fodder to Namek Kuririn, even if Kuririn was noted to have a lot of potential.

Babidi's version is something entirely different though, considering it offers magical abilities his henchmen wouldn't have on their own. If it worked on the same mechanics as the Grand Elder's boost, Vegeta would've gotten next to nothing when a hybrid like Gohan tapped out below half a mil before his free trial at Guru.com expired and he had to rely on Zenkais. As you said, Kuririn is also a prodigy who was taking on the world's best from an early age, whereas regular Spopovich was jobbing to Mr. Satan.

So far apart? Dabra is a 6.75 to Gohan’s 7.2. He’s like, 93-94% of his power. I considered making Dabra a well rounded 7, but that’s too close. Dabra had a weapon and still failed to do anything beyond tiring Gohan.

Dabura didn't seem surprised at all by Gohan breaking his sword, even smirking after he did so, and had no doubt at all in taking a fresh Gohan in Round 2. As you said, Gohan also lost a hefty amount of stamina in the fight and was sweating and panting profusely whereas Dabura didn't even break a sweat, something very difficult to chalk up purely to superior skill. Combine all that with Daizenshuu 7 calling it an even fight and they should be at bare minimum dead even.

Fair point. Viz also translated Piccolo’s line as “Show me what you can do”, as if he still needed to see Gotenks in action to be sure. What about making him a 450?

As little as I care about gaps with how inconsistent the system is, having Gotenks further above Goku than Vegeta was above Dodoria still seems pretty off when Gotenks wasn't suggested to overwhelm him and Galu had already hinted to Piccolo him being incapable of defeating Boo wasn't entirely honest. I'd tend to keep Gotenks' superiority as minimal as possible.

 

[SSJ2]

When the hell was Dabra smirking after Gohan broke his sword? Lol. I'd say his reaction is the definition of being surprised/angered.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

When the hell was Dabra smirking after Gohan broke his sword?

He didn't seem to be take it that seriously on the next page.

Spoiler

Also, the fact he was standing nonchalantly after it broke whereas Gohan was staggered and panting says a lot. If they were at the same level of power or putting out the same effort, Dabura's condition after that should've at least been comparable to Gohan's.

 

[SSJ2]

Idk. I just zoomed in on my browser as much as possible and I don't see any discernible expression on Dabra's face. He definitely smirked after finding out that Vegeta could be used, but that's unrelated.

Anyway, there's no argument to be made that Dabra wasn't in better condition after the fight considering he clearly lost no stamina. But directly after that engagement is when Goku said that Gohan wasn't completely losing, so clearly he was right there in terms of power.

I'd argue that despite Gohan training for the Budokai, he wasn't in battle shape. After 7 years of quitting martial arts, I don't think your battle stamina would completely return from light sparring and solo training. We know that Gohan trained with Goten, but the fact of the matter is neither of them made significant gains despite having 6 months to train together. We saw how much Goku/Gohan managed to accomplish in the RoSaT once both of them became Super Saiyans, which leads me to believe that Gohan/Goten weren't training with nearly the same intensity. And when you consider the massive potential unlock Gohan received from Boss Kaioshin, it isn't like he was stuck at a wall..

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Anyway, there's no argument to be made that Dabra wasn't in better condition after the fight considering he clearly lost no stamina. But directly after that engagement is when Goku said that Gohan wasn't completely losing, so clearly he was right there in terms of power.

That would be assuming Dabura was indeed putting out all of his effort, which comparing his aftermath of the sword struggle to Gohan's as well as his complete confidence in facing a fresh Gohan not long afterwards, is questionable at best.

I'd argue that despite Gohan training for the Budokai, he wasn't in battle shape. After 7 years of quitting martial arts, I don't think your battle stamina would completely return from light sparring and solo training. We know that Gohan trained with Goten, but the fact of the matter is neither of them made significant gains despite having 6 months to train together. We saw how much Goku/Gohan managed to accomplish in the RoSaT once both of them became Super Saiyans, which leads me to believe that Gohan/Goten weren't training with nearly the same intensity. And when you consider the massive potential unlock Gohan received from Boss Kaioshin, it isn't like he was stuck at a wall..

He was sparring for Goten less than a month and doing so through simple earthly training, so comparing it to Rosat training isn't really fair. Considering the intensity their sparring was shown as being at later on in their training and the fact they were more or less equal, it wouldn't make much sense for him to be worn down so heavily against an equal opponent when the other wasn't breaking a sweat (unless conceding to the idea he was indeed a SS2 against Dabura, perhaps).

 

[SSJ2]

That would be assuming Dabura was indeed putting out all of his effort, which comparing his aftermath of the sword struggle to Gohan's as well as his complete confidence in facing a fresh Gohan not long afterwards, is questionable at best.

I don't see much reason to think otherwise really. Sure, Dabra looked arrogant throughout the fight, but during the close quarters engagement with Gohan he looked completely serious.

He was sparring for Goten less than a month and doing so through simple earthly training, so comparing it to Rosat training isn't really fair. Considering the intensity their sparring was shown as being at later on in their training and the fact they were more or less equal, it wouldn't make much sense for him to be worn down so heavily against an equal opponent when the other wasn't breaking a sweat (unless conceding to the idea he was indeed a SS2 against Dabura, perhaps).

Then that fuels my point even more. One month of irrelevant earth training surely isn't enough to recover 7 years of missed training and battle stamina. The sparring with Goten was only basic sparring at that from what we saw. Goten wasn't even capable of flying. When you compare the effort of that sparring session to the effort Gohan was putting in against Dabra, it's clear which one would be using up more stamina. Goten wasn't trying to kill him. Neither Goten or Gohan even had auras when fighting.. it clearly wasn't serious.

 

[SIAD]

Regarding the issue of Teen Gohan stunted, Dabura also doesn't think he trains constantly, considering that he's very Suppressed all the time. So I don't think Dabura's stamina is higher or much higher than Gohan's. I think that simply, Dabura was not putting all the effort against Gohan, while the latter was and because of that, Gohan was much more tired than Dabura.

I see the fight between Gohan SSJ2 VS Dabura, similar to Goku SSJ VS Cell, with the difference that the first one was interrupted much before the second.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't see much reason to think otherwise really. Sure, Dabra looked arrogant throughout the fight, but during the close quarters engagement with Gohan he looked completely serious.

Yet the question still remains of why would he be so confident things would go so well in Round 2 to the extent of calling Gohan "trash" if they were indeed about equal, or how would Dabura's stamina be so superior to the level he didn't even break a sweat when pressuring Gohan with the sword? The difference seems far too much to chalk up purely to Gohan's rustiness.

Then that fuels my point even more. One month of irrelevant earth training surely isn't enough to recover 7 years of missed training and battle stamina. The sparring with Goten was only basic sparring at that from what we saw. Goten wasn't even capable of flying. When you compare the effort of that sparring session to the effort Gohan was putting in against Dabra, it's clear which one would be using up more stamina. Goten wasn't trying to kill him. Neither Goten or Gohan even had auras when fighting.. it clearly wasn't serious.

It wasn't serious to the extent of being a life or death struggle, but it wasn't exactly a light workout either as evident from the sweat both had.

For a moment though, let's agree Dabura and Gohan were about equal. Dabura's Evil Impulse, despite being an off-guard attack, did barely any damage to Gohan much like what Cell's assault 7 years ago did. This would suggest Gohan's durability hasn't decreased dramatically in correlation to his Ki and the same ought to apply to his stamina. That would seem to suggest that, by a little or a lot, Dabura wasn't revealing all he had against Gohan in much the same way Freeza and Cell didn't against Goku despite both seeming similarly annoyed and serious during their warm ups.

 

[SSJ2]

Yet the question still remains of why would he be so confident things would go so well in Round 2 to the extent of calling Gohan "trash" if they were indeed about equal, or how would Dabura's stamina be so superior to the level he didn't even break a sweat when pressuring Gohan with the sword? The difference seems far too much to chalk up purely to Gohan's rustiness.

Well, his confidence quite simply comes from the fact that he was dominating the fight for the most part. Dabra can have a considerable advantage in the fight despite being equal in power. Imagine Perfect Cell fighting an equally powerful Imperfect Cell. Perfect Cell would be confident in winning the fight 10/10 times and would consider Imperfect Cell to be trash, despite both of them being equal in power. His superior techniques and skills would earn him an easy victory. Dabra similarly has powerful magic on his side as Goku made note of, and he has abilities like his spit that allow him to be confident in any equal powers battle, especially after seeing how inept Gohan was in combat.

I don't think Dabra not being exhausted after his attack has to mean that he was the stronger fighter. From the perspective of leverage, Gohan would have a much more difficult time stopping a sword in motion than Dabra who was simply swinging the sword downwards. Dabra was clearly frustrated that his sword attack failed, so I don't see any reason to assume he wasn't giving it his best there.

For a moment though, let's agree Dabura and Gohan were about equal. Dabura's Evil Impulse, despite being an off-guard attack, did barely any damage to Gohan much like what Cell's assault 7 years ago did. This would suggest Gohan's durability hasn't decreased dramatically in correlation to his Ki and the same ought to apply to his stamina. That would seem to suggest that, by a little or a lot, Dabura wasn't revealing all he had against Gohan in much the same way Freeza and Cell didn't against Goku despite both seeming similarly annoyed and serious during their warm ups.

The durability comparison while fair, I don't think it's completely accurate to lump them in on the same level. Cell's attack did nothing to phase Gohan's demeanor, in fact it did so little to him that Gohan wanted to stop the fight then and there. Against Dabra, Gohan was seemingly flustered after taking that attack and felt the need to rush his next attack. His shouki was arguably affected too. All of these things point to Gohan being a lesser fighter than he was against Cell, and I think stamina is included..

Also I don't think that attack has to imply that Dabra wasn't giving it his all. He could clearly see that Gohan was flustered after that attack, hence adding to his confidence.

 

[GSM123]

When the hell was Dabra smirking after Gohan broke his sword? Lol. I'd say his reaction is the definition of being surprised/angered.

Not only that, but he also seems to be sweating and was shaking during the struggle. He definitely didn’t want that sword to break.

His Oozaru self after having taken a lot of damage from the KKx4 Kamehameha and having expended his Ki further on a Power Ball.

Still 10x stronger than Base Vegeta, meaning the Genki-Dama that hit him was over five times above him. That was a even more absurd feat that surviving the Kamehameha x4.

That's the only one that'd fit with what the Daizenshuu and Boo Arc implications suggest. He could've potentially gained a slight one when watching the Cell Juniors, but Cell not giving it much thought shows it was minimal at best.

Wouldn’t that mean Gohan is no weaker than his Cell Games power most of the time? That certainly doesn’t sit well with what the manga says.

Babidi's version is something entirely different though, considering it offers magical abilities his henchmen wouldn't have on their own. If it worked on the same mechanics as the Grand Elder's boost, Vegeta would've gotten next to nothing when a hybrid like Gohan tapped out below half a mil before his free trial at Guru.com expired and he had to rely on Zenkais. As you said, Kuririn is also a prodigy who was taking on the world's best from an early age, whereas regular Spopovich was jobbing to Mr. Satan.

Well that could be the case since Babidi’s is said to work by drawing from their dark powers or evil emotions or something bad in Daizenshuu 4. We have no idea how evil either of these guys were before meeting Babidi, so it’d be a shot in the dark to compare their power up to Kuririn’s.

Well unlike Gohan, Vegeta didn’t have a free trial; he paid with his soul. Gohan getting hundreds of times stronger also helps explain why these boosts vary in size. Vegeta not being all that evil when Babidi draws his dark side out is also a good explanation. It certainly helps me see why he didn’t surpass Goku, at least.

Guru did say Kuririn was surprisingly gifted for a earthling, but he ended up at the hundreds of thousands at least. Would be surprised if Spopovich and Yamu are really such low tier to only be at least a hundred times weaker.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Still 10x stronger than Base Vegeta, meaning the Genki-Dama that hit him was over five times above him. That was a even more absurd feat that surviving the Kamehameha x4.

Still, Vegeta was clearly very fatigued after taking attacks less than twice his own Ki prior to the Genki Dama despite being shown to be one of the most durable characters in the series, whereas Freeza's Ki didn't diminish in the slightest. The Genki Dama being so strong also doesn't really fit with the narrative of the Freeza and early Cell Arcs where SSJ Goku and Freeza are initially treat as the pinnacle and then standard benchmark of power.

Wouldn’t that mean Gohan is no weaker than his Cell Games power most of the time? That certainly doesn’t sit well with what the manga says.

Comparing him to a version where he landed one kick on Cell or was standing around as being better than his performance against Dabura wouldn't fit either, especially when agreeing to him being a SS2 in that case. Gohan also makes it apparent he wasn't angry as he was back then, so even if not going by the idea of him getting a rage boost at the end of the struggle he could be given a more unconventional SS2 boost throughout the entirety of the battle with Cell.
Even if going by the Daizenshuu entry, Gohan would still end up overall inferior to his Cell Game self when the diminished battle instincts would logically cause a drop in shouki and the only instances of him being said to be weaker in general outside of his skill are when he was using SS2.

We have no idea how evil either of these guys were before meeting Babidi, so it’d be a shot in the dark to compare their power up to Kuririn’s.

Killa gives us a good idea with talking about how different Spopovich used to be before making his Majin GAINZ, suggesting he wasn't that evil beforehand.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] about Gotenks and Goku. Given how close Goku and Boo seemed to be, is it really accurate for Gotenks to also be so close to Goku? Goku had a roughly even fight with Majin Boo, and Gotenks probably should have a fairly sizeable advantage to compensate his lack of experience. Unless you think Goku was suppressed against Boo?

 

[SIAD]

@Captain Cadaver about Gotenks and Goku. Given how close Goku and Boo seemed to be, is it really accurate for Gotenks to also be so close to Goku? Goku had a roughly even fight with Majin Boo, and Gotenks probably should have a fairly sizeable advantage to compensate his lack of experience. Unless you think Goku was suppressed against Boo?

Later Goku states that if he wanted to, he could have killed Fat Boo, therefore Goku SSJ3 did not fight with his 100% power.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] Considering his conversation with Piccolo still made it apparent to the latter Goku could have done more had he wished, I wouldn't say the scaling of statements would necessitate a sizeable gap between Goku and Gotenks.