Androids Saga PLs

[FeatsofPower]

Piccolo (W/o Weights) 2,500,000,000
Android 17 2,500,000,000
Android 18 2,250,000,000
Piccolo (W/Weights) 2,200,000,000
Imperfect Cell Post 1,850,000,000
Imperfect Cell Pre 1,750,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,550,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku 1,500,000,000
Super Saiyan Trunks 1,400,000,000
Piccolo (W/o Weights) 1,250,000,000
Android 20 (Post Piccolo) 1,050,000,000
Piccolo (W/ Weights) 1,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku (Sick) 1,000,000,000
Android 19 (Post Absorption) 900,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku (Post Kamehameha) 800,000,000
Android 20 750,000,000
Android 19 700,000,000
Vegeta 31,000,000
Goku 30,000,000
Trunks 28,000,000
Piccolo (W/o Weights, Suppressed) 25,000,000
Piccolo (W/ Weights, Suppressed) 20,000,000
Gohan 15,000,000
Krillen 5,000,000
Tien 4,500,000
Yamcha 3,000,000




These are my best SSJ=50x boost numbers I got.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I like it. This is what I have:

Kamiccolo (FP)/Android 17: 750
Kamiccolo (W)/Android 18: 720
Imperfect Cell: 600

SSJ Vegeta: 500
SSJ Goku: 480
SSJ Trunks: 450
Piccolo (FP): 375
SSJ Goku (Sick): 360

Android 19 (Post): 300
Android 20 (Post): 270

Android 20 (Pre): 200
Android 19 (Pre): 180

Vegeta: 10
Goku: 9.6
Trunks: 9
Piccolo (W): 7.5
Gohan: 6
Kuririn: 5
Tenshinhan: 4
Yamcha: 2

@Goku9001 @ahill1 @SIAD what do you think?

 

[SIAD]

I like it. This is what I have:

Kamiccolo (FP)/Android 17: 750
Kamiccolo (W)/Android 18: 720
Imperfect Cell: 600

SSJ Vegeta: 500
SSJ Goku: 480
SSJ Trunks: 450
Piccolo (FP): 375
SSJ Goku (Sick): 360

Android 19 (Post): 300
Android 20 (Post): 270

Android 20 (Pre): 200
Android 19 (Pre): 180

Vegeta: 10
Goku: 9.6
Trunks: 9
Piccolo (W): 7.5
Gohan: 6
Kuririn: 5
Tenshinhan: 4
Yamcha: 2

@Goku9001 @ahill1 @SIAD what do you think?

I like.

 

[SSJ2]

Android 19 (Post): 300
Android 20 (Post): 270

Android 20 (Pre): 200

20 post > 19 post

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

20 post > 19 post

Why? I used to go with that in the old days, but then I noticed there’s no reason. 19 absorbs way more energy.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Because #20 was way faster than Vegeta expected.

 

[SSJ2]

20 was fast enough to escape from and evade Vegeta. 19 post had no hope in hell in accomplishing this feat. Even after 19 had drained a significant amount of Vegeta's ki, Vegeta still tore his arms off and destroyed him.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

20 had all those rocks to hide though. How could 19 hide in an open field? 20 would’ve looked as pathetic if they were still in the desert.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Yeah I have 19 Post around 85% of 20 Post.

20 Post Vegeta’s Blast should be significantly superior to 19 Post.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Dunno, that was such a generic Ki blast. A Kamehameha, even a sick one, should give more energy.

But 19 was losing energy on the beatdown right? So 19 absorbing the Kamehameha doesn’t have to be a big boost. Still, I don’t buy 20 being stronger because he ran away.

What’s Piccolo vs 20? 1.2x?

 

[FeatsofPower]

What’s Piccolo vs 20? 1.2x?

Yep

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It’s doable then.

Android 19: 240
~ Post: 300

Android 20: 270
~ Post: 330

SSJ Goku (Sick): 360
Piccolo: 400

SSJ Trunks: 450
SSJ Goku: 480
SSJ Vegeta: 500

Like why not right? 20 was the stronger Android before absorptions and 19 was never a big deal. 20 even thought he could beat Vegeta absorbing everyone. Yeah he was wrong, but I don’t think 19 could ever even dream of that. He got Ki from Vegeta himself and got wrecked.

 

[Goku9001]

No way in hell is Android 19 Post comparable to Android 20 Post. Android 20 was legitimately fast enough to intercept Vegeta's blast and escape from him. This astonished Vegeta despite being privy to Android 19's speed. Piccolo also mentioned that Android 20 specifically selected their battle area so that the Androids could escape into the rocks if necessary. There's no reason why Android 19 couldn't have used that to his advantage if necessary.

I'd also wager that Suppressed Piccolo has far more energy than a crippled Kamehameha. Power is not equivalent to Ki output. Even a generic ki blast presumably yields more destructive power than the user themselves and yet the energy pales in comparison to the user's total energy. Absorbing Piccolo could have easily been far more substantial than Goku's Kamehameha. Not that Piccolo was necessary. Android 20 was easily above Android 19 Post after absorbing Vegeta's ki blast, at the very least.

 

[FeatsofPower]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Those numbers are really starting to shape up brother, when I get a little more time I’m really hone in on them.

@Goku9001

Great points

 

[Goku9001]

It’s doable then.

Android 19: 240
~ Post: 300

Android 20: 270
~ Post: 330

SSJ Goku (Sick): 360
Piccolo: 400

SSJ Trunks: 450
SSJ Goku: 480
SSJ Vegeta: 500

Like why not right? 20 was the stronger Android before absorptions and 19 was never a big deal. 20 even thought he could beat Vegeta absorbing everyone. Yeah he was wrong, but I don’t think 19 could ever even dream of that. He got Ki from Vegeta himself and got wrecked.

This is better. A 1.5x increase for the Androids seemed too large and you had SSJ Sick Goku too close to Piccolo before. These numbers make more sense.

Me personally:

Android 19: 300
~ Post: 350

Android 20: 385
~ Post: 455

SSJ Goku (Sick): 470
Piccolo: 560

SSJ Trunks: 645
SSJ Goku: 672
SSJ Vegeta: 700

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

A 1.5x increase for the Androids seemed too large and you had SSJ Sick Goku too close to Piccolo before.

Really? 19 absorbing the Kamehameha seemed like a huge deal, with Gero saying 19 powered up greatly. That Kamehameha also should have a lot of Ki since Goku’s power dropped like a stone after it.

Yeah, Piccolo should be a solid step above. I was trying to keep Piccolo at 75% of Vegeta thought, so I had to squeeze the gaps.

 

[Goku9001]

Really? 19 absorbing the Kamehameha seemed like a huge deal, with Gero saying 19 powered up greatly. That Kamehameha also should have a lot of Ki since Goku’s power dropped like a stone after it.

Yeah, Piccolo should be a solid step above. I was trying to keep Piccolo at 75% of Vegeta thought, so I had to squeeze the gaps.

Why should it? That Kamehameha has a lot of power but that doesn't correlate to total energy which is what's really being added to Android 19 and Android 20's own reserves. You're just conflating power with volume and they're not the same.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why should it? That Kamehameha has a lot of power but that doesn't correlate to total energy which is what's really being added to Android 19 and Android 20's own reserves. You're just conflating power with volume and they're not the same.

So a generic Ki blast they can spam spends more Ki that Goku’s strongest attack?

 

[Goku9001]

So a generic Ki blast they can spam spends more Ki that Goku’s strongest attack?

No one claimed this. I think you're just grossly overestimating the ki contained with that Kamehameha. Goku's stamina is horrendous at this point so it's possible that he's inefficient with his energy usage on top of that Kamehameha being hastily made. It's nowhere near as energy dense as you think it is.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No one claimed this. I think you're just grossly overestimating the ki contained with that Kamehameha. Goku's stamina is horrendous at this point so it's possible that he's inefficient with his energy usage on top of that Kamehameha being hastily made. It's nowhere near as energy dense as you think it is.

This doesn’t make any sense. Goku was stated to be in a hurry to finish the fight and his condition worsened after the Kamehameha. The Kamehameha is often a finishing move and in the early series characters avoided using it because it cost too much energy.

On the other hand, Vegeta’s blast was just bait. Completely expendable.