Arc Zamasu / Anime

[SIAD]

U6:

Hit (Peak) = 8

Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 = 9.6

(Kamehameha) = 10

Arc Zamasu:

Future Zamasu = 0.8

Future Trunks SSJ2 = 0.9375

Goku / Vegeta SSJB = 1

Goku Black SSJR (Suppressed) = 1.25
Goku Black SSJR (FP) = 2

Goku SSJB (Enraged) = 2.5

Goku Black SSJR (Post Goku) = 3.84

Future Trunks SSJRage = 3.84

Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) = 5.625
Goku SSJB (Post training) = 2.5

Goku Black SSJR (Enraged) = 9.8304

Vegeta SSJB (Post Goku Black Clones) = 7.5
Goku SSJB (Post Goku Black Clones) = 7.5

Merged Zamasu = 21
~ Halo = 42

Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Power Up) = 16

Future Trunks SSJRage (Power Up) = 15
~ Garlic Gun = 22.5

SSJB Vegeta (Beyond limits)= 16
~ Garlic Gun = 24

Father-Son Garlic Gun = 46.5

Merged Zamasu's FP Holy Wrath = 52.5

Goku SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) = 22
~ Arms-breaker Kamehameha = 68.75
~ Kaio-Ken x10 = 220

Merged Zamasu (Mutated) = 960
~ Giant = 1,200

Vegetto Base = 25.6
~ SSJB = 1.280

Future Trunks SSJRage (Genki Sword) = 1,650

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Merged Zamasu (Initial) should easily be much, much stronger than that. What fusion doesn't even double the fuser's power?

Not sure if Trunks > Vegetto. Trunks had Zamasu on the ropes even before the gathered the Genki Sword, so it looks like Zamasu was weakened from fighting Vegetto.

 

[SIAD]

I have a hard time having Merged Zamasu (Initial) many times stronger than Goku Black SSJR (Peak), considering that the Saiyans manage to give Merged Zamasu Halo some trouble which is itself much more powerful. The strongest of the Saiyans ends up being Goku SSJB, but even so, that version of Goku shouldn't be much more powerful than Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (U6).

 

[Animelover5487]

I think Merged Zamasu (Initial) should easily be much, much stronger than that. What fusion doesn't even double the fuser's power?

Tell that to Toyo.

Manga MZ was initially meant to be defeated by regular Blue Goku and Vegeta together and PSSJB isn't implied to have a large multiplier.

Manga SSJ Kefla also likely isn't multiple times stronger than Kale.

 

[Goku9001]

Merged Zamasu while using a fraction of his power was stated to be a fusion that didn't just combine their powers, "it expanded to no end". Based on how easily he was overpowering Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta initially, he should be many times greater at least. If that wasn't obvious based on how much power he was suppressing against the Saiyans.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Tell that to Toyo.

Manga MZ was initially meant to be defeated by regular Blue Goku and Vegeta together and PSSJB isn't implied to have a large multiplier.

Manga SSJ Kefla also likely isn't multiple times stronger than Kale.

Yeah but that’s Toyotaro’s dumb ass. Another reason for me to downplay the manga. Merged Zamasu was so absurdly strong he had people thinking he was Beerus level back in 2017.

 

[SIAD]

Yeah but that’s Toyotaro’s dumb ass. Another reason for me to downplay the manga. Merged Zamasu was so absurdly strong he had people thinking he was Beerus level back in 2017.

People thought that the most powerful versions of Zamasu (Mutated and Gigant) were the ones on Beerus's level.

The truth is that it is difficult for me to have Merged Zamasu (Initial) >>>> Goku Black SSJR (Peak), considering all the Power Ups he had and Goku SSJB (Peak) does not suggest that he is much superior to Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 ( U6 tournament).

 

[SIAD]

Vegeta declares that Merged Zamasu Halo has the highest Ki he has ever felt, that means he even surpasses Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (Kamehameha vs Hit). Then a more powerful Goku and Vegeta, when they go to hit Merged Zamasu Halo, they are surprised that they are stopped.

Merged Zamasu Halo >> Goku SSJB (Power Up) + Vegeta SSJB (Power Up) > Merged Zamasu Halo (Vegeta's Estimate) > Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (Kamehameha vs Hit) > Merged Zamasu.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

People thought that the most powerful versions of Zamasu (Mutated and Gigant) were the ones on Beerus's level.

The truth is that it is difficult for me to have Merged Zamasu (Initial) >>>> Goku Black SSJR (Peak), considering all the Power Ups he had and Goku SSJB (Peak) does not suggest that he is much superior to Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 ( U6 tournament).

Goku says Hit has gotten better too, so he’s gotten over 10x stronger since their last fight.

Merged Zamasu (Halo) > SSJB Goku (Beyond limits) > Merged Zamasu (Initial) >>> SSJR Goku Black (Peak) > KKx10 SSJB Goku (U6)

 

[SIAD]

Goku says Hit has gotten better too, so he’s gotten over 10x stronger since their last fight.

Merged Zamasu (Halo) > SSJB Goku (Beyond limits) > Merged Zamasu (Initial) >>> SSJR Goku Black (Peak) > KKx10 SSJB Goku (U6)

Do you have the exact quote where Goku Black SSJR is said to be > Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (U6 Tournament)?

What do you think of:

Vegeta SSJB (Peak) + Future Trunks SSJRage (Peak) > Goku SSJB (Peak) if we talk about real power, without amplified attacks? Honestly the Kamehameha against Merged Zamasu Halo was really amped up.

 

[Goku9001]

People thought that the most powerful versions of Zamasu (Mutated and Gigant) were the ones on Beerus's level.

The truth is that it is difficult for me to have Merged Zamasu (Initial) >>>> Goku Black SSJR (Peak), considering all the Power Ups he had and Goku SSJB (Peak) does not suggest that he is much superior to Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 ( U6 tournament).

Merged Zamasu was toying around with Goku and Vegeta yet Goku and Vegeta both confirmed that Merged Zamasu's power was the strongest they've ever felt. The narrative is clearly setting Merged Zamasu up as the strongest fighter ever encountered despite being privy of the power of KKx10 Blue and Hit.

And yes, SSJB Goku (Peak) has to be much stronger than KKx10 Blue Goku (U6) given that SSJB Goku without Kaioken was capable of battling a much stronger version of Hit (who was on par with KKx10 Blue Goku without lethal abilities) with a new, more dangerous array of abilities to boot. It's blatantly confirmed.

 

[SIAD]

Merged Zamasu was toying around with Goku and Vegeta yet Goku and Vegeta both confirmed that Merged Zamasu's power was the strongest they've ever felt. The narrative is clearly setting Merged Zamasu up as the strongest fighter ever encountered despite being privy of the power of KKx10 Blue and Hit.

And yes, SSJB Goku (Peak) has to be much stronger than KKx10 Blue Goku (U6) given that SSJB Goku without Kaioken was capable of battling a much stronger version of Hit (who was on par with KKx10 Blue Goku without lethal abilities) with a new, more dangerous array of abilities to boot. It's blatantly confirmed.

Goku had commented that Hit had gotten stronger, but he didn't mention much stronger.

Also Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 was a bit stronger than Hit.

Anyway I have Goku SSJB and Hit in that Fill a little stronger than Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (U6 Tournament).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku had commented that Hit had gotten stronger, but he didn't mention much stronger.

Goku also only says Trunks is stronger than CG Gohan rather than much stronger. I don’t think it’s that important.

 

[Goku9001]

Goku had commented that Hit had gotten stronger, but he didn't mention much stronger.

Also Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 was a bit stronger than Hit.

Anyway I have Goku SSJB and Hit in that Fill a little stronger than Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (U6 Tournament).

No, he says Hit is way stronger. Regardless, the feats speak for themselves. Hit is able to fight at his best i.e to kill which Goku makes out to be a big deal on top of growing stronger with a new array of techniques. It's clear Hit is a lot stronger here.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

U6:

Hit (Improved): 3,000
SSJB Goku (KKx10): 3,000

Goku Black:

SSJ2 Trunks: 360
SSJB Vegeta: 375
SSJB Goku: 400

Zamasu: 350

SSJR Goku Black: 450
~ Full power: 562.5

SSJB Goku (Enraged): 600

SSJR Goku Black (Post Goku): 900
SSJF Trunks: 900

SSJR Goku Black (Post Trunks): 1,000
~ Post 2nd fight with Trunks: 1,125

SSJB Vegeta (Post Rosat): 1,875
SSJB Goku (Post training): 750

SSJR Goku Black (Peak): 4,500

Merged Zamasu: 100,000
~ Halo: 200,000

SSJF Trunks (Beyond limits): 50,000
~ Garlic Gun: 75,000

SSJB Vegeta (Beyond limits): 50,000
~ Garlic Gun: 75,000

Holy Wrath: 300,000

SSJB Goku (Beyond limits): 100,000
~ Beyond limits Kamehameha: 500,000
~ Kaio-Ken x10: 1,000,000

Merged Zamasu (Mutated): 360,000,000
~ Giant: 400,000,000

Vegetto: 3,750,000
~ SSJB: 375,000,000

Merged Zamasu (Weakened): 50,000
SSJF Trunks (Genki Sword): 1,000,000

Filler

SSJB Goku/Vegeta: 150,000
Hit: 150,000

 

[Goku9001]

U6:

Hit (Improved): 3,000
SSJB Goku (KKx10): 3,000

Goku Black:

SSJ2 Trunks: 360
SSJB Vegeta: 375
SSJB Goku: 400

Zamasu: 350

SSJR Goku Black: 450
~ Full power: 562.5

SSJB Goku (Enraged): 600

SSJR Goku Black (Post Goku): 900
SSJF Trunks: 900

SSJR Goku Black (Post Trunks): 1,000
~ Post 2nd fight with Trunks: 1,125

SSJB Vegeta (Post Rosat): 1,875
SSJB Goku (Post training): 750

SSJR Goku Black (Peak): 4,500

Merged Zamasu: 100,000
~ Halo: 200,000

SSJF Trunks (Beyond limits): 50,000
~ Garlic Gun: 75,000

SSJB Vegeta (Beyond limits): 50,000
~ Garlic Gun: 75,000

Holy Wrath: 300,000

SSJB Goku (Beyond limits): 100,000
~ Beyond limits Kamehameha: 500,000
~ Kaio-Ken x10: 1,000,000

Merged Zamasu (Mutated): 360,000,000
~ Giant: 400,000,000

Vegetto: 3,750,000
~ SSJB: 375,000,000

Merged Zamasu (Weakened): 50,000
SSJF Trunks (Genki Sword): 1,000,000

Filler

SSJB Goku/Vegeta: 150,000
Hit: 150,000

Vegeta is definitely weaker than Goku when Goku fights Hit. Beerus states that Goku is their strongest warrior. Vegeta explicitly tells Whis to up the training regime to match Goku's to catch up to him.

 

[SIAD]

U6:

Hit (Improved): 3,000
SSJB Goku (KKx10): 3,000

Goku Black:

SSJ2 Trunks: 360
SSJB Vegeta: 375
SSJB Goku: 400

Zamasu: 350

SSJR Goku Black: 450
~ Full power: 562.5

SSJB Goku (Enraged): 600

SSJR Goku Black (Post Goku): 900
SSJF Trunks: 900

SSJR Goku Black (Post Trunks): 1,000
~ Post 2nd fight with Trunks: 1,125

SSJB Vegeta (Post Rosat): 1,875
SSJB Goku (Post training): 750

SSJR Goku Black (Peak): 4,500

Merged Zamasu: 100,000
~ Halo: 200,000

SSJF Trunks (Beyond limits): 50,000
~ Garlic Gun: 75,000

SSJB Vegeta (Beyond limits): 50,000
~ Garlic Gun: 75,000

Holy Wrath: 300,000

SSJB Goku (Beyond limits): 100,000
~ Beyond limits Kamehameha: 500,000
~ Kaio-Ken x10: 1,000,000

Merged Zamasu (Mutated): 360,000,000
~ Giant: 400,000,000

Vegetto: 3,750,000
~ SSJB: 375,000,000

Merged Zamasu (Weakened): 50,000
SSJF Trunks (Genki Sword): 1,000,000

Filler

SSJB Goku/Vegeta: 150,000
Hit: 150,000

What I don't agree with is that because Vegeta would declare just after feeling a part of the power of Merged Zamasu Halo, that it is the first time he feels such a powerful Ki. That wouldn't mean Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (Kamehameha) >= Merged Zamasu?

And following those numbers, what Power Level would you give Goku SSJB (Start of ToP) and Hit (ToP)?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta is definitely weaker than Goku when Goku fights Hit. Beerus states that Goku is their strongest warrior. Vegeta explicitly tells Whis to up the training regime to match Goku's to catch up to him.

Could it be because Vegeta doesn’t have Kaio-Ken? They looked fairly even in the Baseball match. Though I wouldn’t mind lowering Vegeta to 140 or so.

What I don't agree with is that because Vegeta would declare just after feeling a part of the power of Merged Zamasu Halo, that it is the first time he feels such a powerful Ki. That wouldn't mean Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (Kamehameha) >= Merged Zamasu?

And following those numbers, what Power Level would you give Goku SSJB (Start of ToP) and Hit (ToP)?

Not really. It just means Merged Zamasu (Halo) >>> Merged Zamasu (Initial)

Hit is probably a 200,000 since I doubt he wouldn’t improve. SSJG seemed relative to Hit when they fought Dyspo, to SSJB would be 10,000,000.

 

[SIAD]

Could it be because Vegeta doesn’t have Kaio-Ken? They looked fairly even in the Baseball match. Though I wouldn’t mind lowering Vegeta to 140 or so.




Not really. It just means Merged Zamasu (Halo) >>> Merged Zamasu (Initial)

Hit is probably a 200,000 since I doubt he wouldn’t improve. SSJG seemed relative to Hit when they fought Dyspo, to SSJB would be 10,000,000.

And in parallel do you think that Goku and Vegeta got stronger in the time lapse between the End of the Arc Zamasu and the Start of the ToP in the Manga?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And in parallel do you think that Goku and Vegeta got stronger in the time lapse between the End of the Arc Zamasu and the Start of the ToP in the Manga?

No reason to think that since the implications are missing. Hit doesn’t have his adaptation ability in the manga as is as strong as PSSJB Goku the whole ToP.