Are DBZ characters faster than light (no Super) ?

[ahill1]

What do you think?

 

[Papasmurf]

Gohan-Boo showed that they weren't

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan-Boo showed that they weren't

SSJ Gotenks Pre too

 

[ahill1]

They can move in battle quick enough to dodge FTL attacks though, could it be argued? Piccolo's blast seemed to reach the moon instantly, and yet Raditz dodged his stronger and faster attack. I think flight speed they can't, but quick movements amidst the battle, yeah. Maybe like Luffy not moving quickly when running, but dodging Kizaru's like light beams.

 

[Father]

Freeza in his final form literally
needs to be.
So do characters like Cell/Buu.

Early DB attacks being relativistic already
supports the notion that DBZ stuff should be
FTL.

 

[ahill1]

Freeza in his final form literally
needs to be.
So do characters like Cell/Buu.

Early DB attacks being relativistic already
supports the notion that DBZ stuff should be
FTL.

But they were all surprised Goku traveled to Roshi's house and got back at the place Freeza was killed by Trunks instantly, with someone pointing how it was inconceivable as Roshi's house was 10,000km from there or so. Vegeta even thought Goku had tricked them with his speed, but once Goku made the point he got Roshi's sunglass, he shut down Vegeta there. If FTL such feat should be expected

 

[Father]

But they were all surprised Goku traveled to Roshi's house and got back at the place Freeza was killed by Trunks instantly, with someone pointing how it was inconceivable as Roshi's house was 10,000km from there or so. Vegeta even thought Goku had tricked them with his speed, but once Goku made the point he got Roshi's sunglass, he shut down Vegeta there. If FTL such feat should be expected

That’s still a long distance to cover
in an instant for a Base Saiyan who’s probably suppressed to minuscule PL.

Oh and Freeza>Base Saiyans

 

[ahill1]

That’s still a long distance to cover
in an instant for a Base Saiyan who’s probably suppressed to minuscule PL.

Oh and Freeza>Base Saiyans

Yes, but if FTL, he'd be able to achieve that easily. Vegeta stated he tricked them with high speed, meaning Vegeta couldn't see that... But the fact he was proven wrong when Goku told he went to Kame house, means it was way beyond what Vegeta and base Goku could achieve. Way beyond what SSJ could achieve too given the Cell saga, since Cell couldn't believe Goku would just disappear like that with Shunkan Ido.

There's also Gotenks lasting one minute until getting to fat Boo as a SSJ... Which wouldn't the case if FTL either. So I think it just has conflicting evidence tbh.

 

[Father]

Yes, but if FTL, he'd be able to achieve that easily. Vegeta stated he tricked them with high speed, meaning Vegeta couldn't see that... But the fact he was proven wrong when Goku told he went to Kame house, means it was way beyond what Vegeta and base Goku could achieve. Way beyond what SSJ could achieve too given the Cell saga, since Cell couldn't believe Goku would just disappear like that with Shunkan Ido.

There's also Gotenks lasting one minute until getting to fat Boo as a SSJ... Which wouldn't the case if FTL either. So I think it just has conflicting evidence tbh.

AT isn’t well informed about science.

Dagon provided enough material about
this on the discord the other day,
there’s really nothing more to add imo.

 

[ahill1]

AT isn’t well informed about science.

Dagon provided enough material about
this on the discord the other day,
there’s really nothing more to add imo.

Well, I think then the same things could be said about the implications of them being FTL, that AT isn't that well informed about science.

 

[Father]

Well, I think then the same things could be said about the implications of them being FTL, that AT isn't that well informed about science.

For anyone to be a universal threat to
with such urgency, they need to be at least FTL AND preferably be able to survive the vacuum of space.

We know Freeza “has” to be FTL for the simple reason that he wasn’t afraid of blowing up Namek, and we know he wasn’t planning on traveling to the next solar system for next 1000+~~~ years.

I also think we’re being disingenuous with
early DB being relativistic in on-panel feats like instantly destroying the moon,
and characters in early DBZ far outclassing them in speed.
We also have Goku dodging solar flare in
23rd Budokai, he was quick enough to dodge and steal Roshis sunglasses.

A similar case can be made for Cell and Buu.
No one would care if they could wipe out the
universe if it’ll take them billions of years to
get to wherever they are.
A more natural threat is likely to kill them
all before Cell/Buu could reach them.

I don’t think I need to even bring up
RSSJ Broly who destroyed most of south galaxy in what is implied to be a very short time.

 

[ahill1]

For anyone to be a universal threat to
with such urgency, they need to be at least FTL AND preferably be able to survive the vacuum of space.

We know Freeza “has” to be FTL for the simple reason that he wasn’t afraid of blowing up Namek, and we know he wasn’t planning on traveling to the next solar system for next 1000+~~~ years.

I also think we’re being disingenuous with
early DB being relativistic in on-panel feats like instantly destroying the moon,
and characters in early DBZ far outclassing them in speed.
We also have Goku dodging solar flare in
23rd Budokai, he was quick enough to dodge and steal Roshis sunglasses.

A similar case can be made for Cell and Buu.
No one would care if they could wipe out the
universe if it’ll take them billions of years to
get to wherever they are.
A more natural threat is likely to kill them
all before Cell/Buu could reach them.

I don’t think I need to even bring up
RSSJ Broly who destroyed most of south galaxy in what is implied to be a very short time.

Are those characters even referred to as a threat to the Universe? Or just as a threat to the world? Besides, I don't think Universe needs to be taken literally. It can just mean a threat in the sense that no one will ever be able to stop them wherever they go, rather than traveling as far as they can. For example, they couldn't reach the Kaioshin Kai without the Shunkan Idou, since it's said in the Daizenshuu the only way to travel there was through teleportation.

Also, I know the attacks are implied to be that fast... Which is why I think the characters can react to FTL attacks in a quick way, but can't really move through long distances. Goku also spent months traveling the snake road which was 1,000,000 km... And Goku also took some minutes to get to where Vegeta and Nappa was using his Kintoun to conserve energy, while if FTL, wouldn't it be sensible for him to just reach there instantly in an eye blink? That's why I think there's a clear disconnection in the story between how far the character move through flying and how fast they react to attacks quickly, the latter which is likely ftl, the former which has many examples showing it isn't.

With Shunkan Idou, Cell could also arguably be a bigger universal threat.

Also, I wouldn't exactly equate escaping from the planet as necessarily faster than light as the speed at which an explosion expands can vary greatly depending on the type of explosion and the materials involved, but it's typically far below the speed of light. I'd say considering more clear cut scenes like the snake road which are more literal, Goku avoiding the Taiyoken as far back as the 22nd Budokai intended to showcase Goku's incredible speed and reflexes in a visually compelling way, rather than making a statement about his ability to move faster than light in a literal, physical sense, much the same way I think Roshi destroying the moon can have some artistic and funny liberty taken when the moon is a huge feat, while Tenshinhan's Kikoho, said by Roshi as easily surpassing the KMHMH, created a crater where the arena was and the destruction was limited to that, but with Roshi looking at the destruction of the arena as proving how above the KMHMH it was... Piccolo's feat of blowing a city wouldn't even seem that impressive with Roshi from the 21st Budokai, even while buffed, destroying the moon, which I think reflects the earlier sagas more gag-ish and not so literal to be taken feats, imo.

 

[Father]

It is what it is bro

the cell and buu stuff is stated before
they acquire the means to teleport too
so that doesn’t leave much to discuss.

 

[ahill1]

It is what it is bro

the cell and buu stuff is stated before
they acquire the means to teleport too
so that doesn’t leave much to discuss.

At least in VIZ, Piccolo stated Cell would be a threat to all planets in the galaxy due to possessing Freeza's cells, not the universe. That may account for the potential of destruction rather than overall speed, too... Which would be more likely as even crossing the galaxy at light speed would take around 100,000 years... And traveling from planet to planet, as there're billions of planets within the Milky Way galaxy lulz, which even if FTL, it could take millions of years to travel from planet to planet with such absurd amount of planets, so it may be reflective of his overall destruction abilities. Or, in that case, I'd think the "AT doesn't know much about science" would be way more applied since those scenes like taking months to cross the snake road or Gotenks lasting one minute to get to Boo's house are way more straightforward and doesn't need much deep thinking besides Toriyama taking all those factors in regards to going planet to planet in the galaxy... Unless also possible, the galaxy is pretty different in DB.

 

[Father]

That’s why they’re MFTL and not “FTL”.

You can make the argument that galaxies
are more hurdled up together in proximity than irl just because it’s stated in the Daiz that the living universe is filled with infinite galaxies.

 

[ahill1]

Freeza also needed his ship to get to Earth. I'm sure he'd prefer getting there instantly if he could. Goku maybe could also get to Earth instantly without relying on the spaceship if knowing the directions, maybe, as he'd travel in such as fast way. If managing to go from planet to planet instantly, maybe Goku didn't even need to fear getting a space ship as he'd be so fast that he couldn't cross the galaxy instantly and quickly go to a planet, no? Directions could be a problem, but Bulma stressed that getting to Namek in their spaceship would be impossible. If she could pinpoint the directions, then it wouldn't be out of the way for someone there to carry her over extremely quickly idk lol. I think Freeza's overall reliance on spaceships to move in between planets could imply it wouldn't be enough time for him to get there on his own.

 

[ahill1]

Which yeah I acknowledge that the distance wouldn't be the sole problem, but the direction the character should go, which they could be lost on their own even if MFTL... But that would apply to Cell as wellm wouldn't it? The same way Goku could have the speed but not the directions to find a planet quickly without losing his breath, Cell would also share those problems specially when travelling to unknown horizons, as the same inconvenience that despite them being faster than their spaceships had due to not knowing the directions, Cell would have no matter how fast he was. That's why I like to approach Piccolo's statement about Cell's galaxy threat more in a way that his overall capabilities and abilities to survive in space with his sheer destruction power could make him a galactic threat in a more general sense, through his potential to destroy larger portions of the galaxy over time, rather than easily and zapping through billions of planets, which would also meet the same levels of impracticality that makes Freeza and Goku resort to the technology of spaceships.

 

[Hector]

They're fast as the plot needs them to be. Roshi and Krillin at 21st TB were fast enough to do all that crazy stuff in 0.2 seconds, whereas Gotenks Buu was slow enough for Dende to see his attack and warn Gohan.

 

[Warmmedown]

No they're everywhere at once. Piccolo's beam hit the moon right away because he has an atom in every cubic metre of the universe. It looks like he fired a beam, but it's more like a mexican wave. But nobody in the universe knows about this, so they don't take advantage of it. If Goku wanted to, he could fire a beam everywhere in the universe at once.

Yeh I'm just making shit up.